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Kodak 500T on Beaulieu Pro and Canon 814XLS?


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#1 Samuel Berger

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

I'm covering an indoor gymnastics event soon and I was planning on shooting on 16mm Vision3 500T but now I'm reconsidering.

 

I think I'm going to use Super 8 instead because the lighting won't be that wonderful and I can get more depth of field with Super 8. Plus, I don't want to scare anyone walking around with a huge Eclair NPR at a time when cops are shooting photographers because they mistake cameras for guns.

 

But I was wondering if I would need to do any sort of notch hack to get them to work properly. The Beaulieu is new, I've never used it before. I got it as a gift, it's a Max 8 gate altered by Bjorn Andersson. And the Canon, I haven't used it in ten years so I will need to re-learn some of it. I sorta moved away from the hobby after losing my entire Super 8 collection.

 

I admit that I tend to default to Single 8 and the ZC1000 but the only film I have for it is the 100D. That's not going to do great in a place lit mostly by fluorescent tubes.

 

The Beaulieu has been modified to take regular C-mount lens. I intend to use a Canon 12-120 fluorite zoom.

 

Do I have to worry about notching using this stock on those cameras?


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#2 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 06:36 PM

The BEAULIEU has a fast shutterspeed of 1/80th due to the up and down design of the Guillotine shutter.  A low light camera it is not.  Also, on the BEAULIEU the cartridge notch means nothing since it has its own ASA/ISO dial on the control side of the camera.  I would opt for using the CANON since it is a low light camera, thus the "XL" designation, faster shutter opening of 220 degrees versus the very small opening time on BEAULIEU.  Of course, make sure the CANON is working okay.  As for the cartridge notch on the CANON, it will read up to ASA/ISO 400 and that's close enough as the slight overexposure will work in your favor, IF there's the opportunity for such.  If you prefer the BEAULIEU, then I suggest going to where the venue will be and take some meter readings to see if it will work.  I mean, some events are so well lit, that you may not need an "XL" camera.  That being said, the CANON's viewfinder is a bit brighter and the camera is easier to use generally speaking.  Lastly, if the camera gate aspect ratio isn't any trouble, since you mentioned that the BEAULIEU has the Super 8W gate (Super 8 Wide is what this was branded by it's inventor in Switzerland, Ruedi Muester......not Max, not Super Duper...that last one sounds so childish) anyhow, check the lighting/illumination levels, check the CANON for working condition (let the motor run for a minute at least and check the meter and other settings you will be using), and make your decision.  Actually, IF you had time, and the equipment to do so, you could unload the Super 8 500T Color Neg and reload an empty Single-8 cartridge, albeit you'd only get 40ft to 44ft into it.   Good luck on your shoot however you decide!


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#3 Samuel Berger

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 06:49 PM

Thank you as always, Martin. I was only considering the Beaulieu because of the Zoom. I wasn't entirely sure that the 814XLS's 56mm zoom would be enough to cover the event from a distance but I have just checked it out and it works great!

 

Only issue I'm finding is that the handgrip no longer locks in the down position. I hope this isn't a sign of bigger problems to come.


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#4 Samuel Berger

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:37 AM

Today I filmed the event at last with the 814XLS and Kodak 500T. I ended up only catching some of it on Super 8 and had to use my BMPCC backup camera because of a very annoying issue. The footage counter on the 814XLS wouldn't reset to 0 and it kept telling me my cartridge was over long before it actually was. So I had to retire the Super 8 for the evening. That was an annoying thing to happen. I guess it's time to send the 814XLS for a CLA. I hope that was the only issue with it. I managed to run a full cart, which will likely need to be pushed a stop. The underexposure warning was on for the whole thing. 

 

My BMPCC set to 800 ISO managed to work well even at f/3.2. The Canon 814XLS was wide open the whole time. I wonder what it's going to look like when it comes back from Cinelab.


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#5 Nick Collingwood

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

Honestly I wouldn't go for the push. After having similar issues with low light and pushing Super 8, I have found that pushing Super 8 results in incredibly incredibly grainy film and doesn't do much in the end vs what a good 2k scan from a place like Gamma Ray Digital can do instead. Phil of Pro8mm even suggested against pushing film because of the improvements in scanning within the past few years. You can see how grainy this ceremony at 2:30 was where I pushed the film 1 stop in a CRAZY low lit terrace although part of it was shot at 9fps to help. Hope you had your shutter angle at 220º! Ultimately you'd be surprised at how sensitive 500T is.
 
 

As far as the 814XL-S issues, that's odd about the footage counter. Sometimes if the batteries are low on the 814XL-S it will continue to shoot for mere 1 second intervals before stopping and showing the "End Cart" light. So perhaps try and replace the batteries with fresh ones. I know Du-All in NYC will refurb the 814 or Pro8mm.


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#6 Rudy Velez Jr

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:31 PM

that looks great 


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#7 Samuel Berger

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:39 PM

There's nothing in this world that would make me use Pro8mm for anything. But, I think you might be right about pushing the 500T. I don't think I'll do it. Film is easy to grade on Resolve when the program decides to work.

 

I'm attaching an ungraded generic frame converted from DNG to JPG, taken at 800 ISO at f/3.2 with the BMPCC, which is what I had to use after the 814XLS started becoming unreliable. Batteries were fresh, the counter was just not resetting completely.

 

jpg.jpg

 

This shows how dark it was in there.


Edited by Samuel Berger, 15 January 2018 - 12:42 PM.

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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 05:30 AM

The frame grab tidied up reasonably well in Lightroom. About 2 stops under and a lot of shadow noise but fixable. Don't know if that helps.


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#9 Nick Collingwood

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 11:17 AM

Also you have to keep in mind that the Canon 814 is reading the 500T cart as 400ASA as that's the highest it can read. So you'll get a little more exposure than the meter is reading. Looking forward to seeing the results.


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#10 Samuel Berger

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:44 PM

The frame grab tidied up reasonably well in Lightroom. About 2 stops under and a lot of shadow noise but fixable. Don't know if that helps.

 

You're always helpful, Mark. :-) What do you think of the pushing idea? That digital frame was two stops underexposed at 800 ISO, f/3.2. But, in Super 8 I should have comparable depth of field even wide open with 500T rated at 400.

 

 

Also you have to keep in mind that the Canon 814 is reading the 500T cart as 400ASA as that's the highest it can read. So you'll get a little more exposure than the meter is reading. Looking forward to seeing the results.

 

I still have about 20 feet left to shoot so I'll film odds and ends around the house before sending it in for processing. I wanted to scan at Gamma Ray but I'll likely get a better deal using Cinelab since they process and scan at the same place.


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