Jump to content


Photo

Jump cuts


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 George Ebersole

George Ebersole
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1660 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • San Francisco Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 05:47 AM

Way back when in 85 or thereabouts, one of the first things I learned from a couple of vets was that you never jump cut.  And yet these days, it's like well over half the media uploaded are filled with jump cuts.

 

To me it's annoying as anything, and I'm wondering how it got pushed and carved into mainstream visual media.  

 

Any opinions to help enlighten me are welcome.


  • 0

#2 aapo lettinen

aapo lettinen
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1114 posts
  • Other
  • Finland

Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:00 AM

MTV maybe?


  • 1

#3 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 09:09 AM

It goes back to the French New Wave, perhaps even earlier, those silent movie makers were pretty cutting edge in their editing


  • 0

#4 Giacomo Girolamo

Giacomo Girolamo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Venezia

Posted 27 December 2017 - 10:51 AM

MTV maybe?

You take my words from my mouth, haha (I don't know if that expression exist in english).

 

Is true that the frenchs an russians experiment a lot with jump cut, but to me, MTV made it mainstream. A lot of public (young new public) just get used it to a lot of new ways of tell stories and make interesting videos.


  • 0

#5 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20028 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:26 AM

Godard's "Breathless" (1960) made it popular though the technique goes back to the earliest days of cinema.  Vertof's "Man with a Movie Camera" (1929) is made up of jumps cuts.

 

Even "E.T." has some jump cuts, in the scene where Eliot is scared at night in the cornfield while trying to find E.T. with his flashlight -- and at the end when Eliot and the gang are confronted by the FBI with guns and there are jump cuts into E.T.'s face just before the bikes lift off.

 

It's not a mistake if done intentionally for effect.

 


  • 0

#6 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:41 AM

https://magnoliafore...cuts-in-cinema/

 

https://amylaurenzoo...m/tag/jump-cut/

 

MTV were rather late to the party,


  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20028 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:52 AM

The cut in "2001" from the falling bone to the spaceship is both a match cut and a jump cut (a jump of 4 million story years!):


  • 0

#8 Miguel Roman

Miguel Roman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Amsterdam

Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:13 PM

About the fact that the jump cut is being over used nowadays, I believe that it is due to aesthetic reasons and easy editing/film making; jump cuts can be used with a humorous intention or to speed up the flow of the video.

 

And about the easy editing, youtube is a platform that allows to virtually every single person to have their own "TV show", but that doesn't mean that everyone knows about cinematography or editing. I believe people who upload videos where they talk about tutorials, reviews, lessons, etc, tend to ramble on too much, and in a vast amount of videos, they are just shooting themselves in a static continuous shot, so by the time they get to edit the video, they just skip the bits that don't satisfy them and the easiest way they can do that is with a jump cut.


Edited by Miguel Roman, 27 December 2017 - 12:13 PM.

  • 0

#9 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:23 PM

Like any aspect of editing, there can be bad jump cuts and there can be great jump cuts.


  • 0

#10 George Ebersole

George Ebersole
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1660 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • San Francisco Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:24 PM

Thanks for the replies;

 

I guess, and I can certainly see the intentional effects it's supposed to have.  But most of the time today, specifically in online media (I've never seen it used in contemporary feature films), it's usually a talking-torso in a lockdown, where the whole video is essentially like this; sound-bight edit, sound-bight edit, sound-bight edit.

 

Born in the 60s, coming of age in the 70s and 80s, it's just jarring to me, and annoying a lot of the time.  But I guess that's the style.  Weird.

 

I did not know the French pioneered it.  And I never noticed that 2001 jumpcut until you pointed it out, Dave.  Very interesting.  

 

It's like the two things I really hate most about contemporary film making styles are shaky cam and jump cuts, yet everybody uses them.  Oh well.  I guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy.  

 

Thanks all!   :D


  • 1

#11 Giacomo Girolamo

Giacomo Girolamo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Venezia

Posted 27 December 2017 - 01:34 PM

We don't talk about who make it first, instead who makes it mainstream.

Interest stuff though, thanks for sharing.


  • 0

#12 Giacomo Girolamo

Giacomo Girolamo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Venezia

Posted 27 December 2017 - 01:39 PM

 

 

I guess, and I can certainly see the intentional effects it's supposed to have.  But most of the time today, specifically in online media (I've never seen it used in contemporary feature films),

 

I believe you never noticed. Like any "effect", is it use it right, you tend to immerse in the story and don't even notice it.


  • 0

#13 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1309 posts
  • Director
  • Og from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:19 PM

It exploded everywhere when the age of Youtube vlogging came around by the late 2000's. Tons of public speakers who never learned how to speak so they relied on their editing softwares to make them sound engaging.


  • 0

#14 George Ebersole

George Ebersole
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1660 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • San Francisco Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:42 PM

 

I believe you never noticed. Like any "effect", is it use it right, you tend to immerse in the story and don't even notice it.

 

Quite possibly.


  • 1

#15 Tyler Purcell

Tyler Purcell
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4019 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 27 December 2017 - 02:45 PM

Yea, youtube v-logs are they're called, are usually condensed using the jump cut method, rather then overlay with another image.

I'm not a fan of jump cuts, but since I create a lot of content for youth these days, I have been experimenting with the idea. I've only done it with music, where you want to pick up the pace with a song.

Per my other thread about producing cosplay content these days for my documentary series... here is the first time I've ever used jump cuts. I think it works well in this setting with condensing time, when you're dealing with limited footage, limited time and can't really "overlay" since you need to stay with the action.


  • 0

#16 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:38 PM

We don't talk about who make it first, instead who makes it mainstream.

Interest stuff though, thanks for sharing.

 

That would probably be the generation of American film makers coming through in the 1960/70s, who went to film school, studied Godard and the editing techniques of the Russian film makers and directed Hollywood feature films. These people would also have influenced the people making music videos in the 1980s.

 

There's nothing new about the YouTube type jump cutting, some British documentary makers (for the BBC etc) were doing that in the late 60s, into the 70s and on into the modern day to indicate that an interview had been cut (i,e, shortened).. They believe that it's a  form of truthfulness, sometimes they'd also put a few black frames in.   


  • 1

#17 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1309 posts
  • Director
  • Og from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 27 December 2017 - 04:15 PM

They were cutting every 2 or 3 words of speech in the 60s?? Cause that's "youtube style jump cutting"


  • 0

#18 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 05:09 PM

Not usually every two or three words, I suspect in the 1960s people could string more than two words together, for that sort of pacing (if not faster) go back to Eisenstein.

 


  • 0

#19 George Ebersole

George Ebersole
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1660 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • San Francisco Bay Area

Posted 27 December 2017 - 06:40 PM

My first two film instructors were Joe Price and Richard Williamson, both of whom had done a lot of golden era Hollywood productions; Cleopatra, Ben Hur and so forth.  Sometimes as supporting cast, other times as assistant crew.  They were pretty dogmatic on jump cuts, and I think August Coppola at SF State also frowned upon it.  However, I do seem to recall one exception was for documentaries, and I do seem to recall that Breathless and 2001 were two exceptions they mentioned, as per Dave's post earlier up in the thread.  

 

To me it's jarring, and all the stuff I ever worked on, mostly corporate video, it was a technique that was never used ... maybe one rap video for a guy out of Oakland.   But for all the stuff for Autodesk, Chevron, Apple, Intel, Del Monte, Adobe, and other big name clients that I ever worked on, I never saw one jump cut.

 

Interesting.  


  • 0

#20 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5178 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 December 2017 - 06:44 PM

A Jump cut should be jarring, otherwise why is it there in many cases?


  • 0


rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Abel Cine

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Glidecam

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

The Slider

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC