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Can we talk about "The Crown"?


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#141 Justin Hayward

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

it always looks like shit. Hey, the client appears to be more than happy, . 


I hope they dont read this forum! 😄
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#142 David Hessel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

Yea I understand how it works, they knew too. We used Sony EI on one shoot and it was a nightmare, would never do that again. I lit and exposed for the base ISO because that's what I wanted to try... so much for that idea.

 

You all knew, really? You do realize threre is a thread on this forum that shows otherwise.

http://www.cinematog...e=9#entry482035


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#143 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:43 PM

It still requires a "display LUT" to be displayed properly.

 

A display LUT which is built into the camera, and which comes free with Resolve.

 

I shouldn't "need" to know ANYTHING! lol

 

 

And this hugely egotistical attitude is the root cause of all your problems. The 'educator' who refuses to learn.

 

Every single issue that you've had comes down to the fact that neither you, nor your so-called experts, had the first idea what any of you were doing. You were too lazy, or too arrogant, to do your due diligence, and you screwed up, but you don't want to admit it, so instead you endlessly blame a camera system that thousands of other people use every day without problems.

 

If you want people here to take your posts seriously, you might want to try a small dose of humility, and own up to your mistakes.

 

If, when you first had problems, you had posted here asking for help and advice, you would have found plenty of people familiar with Sonys who would have pointed you in the right direction, and helped you set up the cameras properly (which frankly, is very easy to do, if you bother to learn). Instead, you chose to go on a hugely ill-informed rant blaming everyone but yourself, and making all kinds of ridiculous statements about Sony cameras, all of which have been proven to be either misleading or outright falsehoods.

 

If you don't like Sonys, fine. don't use them. But, please STOP making these completely unsubstantiated, misleading comments about them. You are ONLY person who seems to have these problems.


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#144 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:49 PM

If, when you first had problems, you had posted here asking for help and advice, you would have found plenty of people familiar with Sonys who would have pointed you in the right direction, and helped you set up the cameras properly (which frankly, is very easy to do, if you bother to learn).

 

I dunno those Sony Menus though lol.


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#145 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 07:57 PM

I dunno those Sony Menus though lol.

 

 

I know your joking.. but for anyone using one soon.. the f5/55 since V8 I think .. has a quick menu that comes up in the side LCD.. it has all the main functions.. press the option button.. then move around off the 6 hot buttons.. very easy.. you can also set the whole menu to come up in the side LCD.. the Pana Varicam puts the Sony menus to shame.. very complicated .. if your going to use that camera check it out a few days before.. or have an "expert" on hand


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#146 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:12 PM

Oh it's not so much to the on the day changes, for me it was the figuring out why the camera was soo weirdly set up and spending an hour  looking for the one setting to enable to stupid menu to put it in SLOG mode. The camera came painted to high heavens with lovely pink skin-tones and greenish skies for some reason.


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#147 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:48 PM

I haven't shot with the Sony F55 yet but talking to cinematographers over the years about it, they all seem to figure out how to use it just fine, some have done multiple seasons of television with that camera, shooting hundreds of hours of footage.  

 

But I do think there is room for improvement because many cinematographers seem to find the need to light the camera to a lower ISO than the one being recording in S-Log for some odd reason, like set their meters to 1000 or 800 ISO when the camera is set to 1250 ISO.  I don't know if they are using a waveform on the Rec.709 signal and feel it looks "low" when exposing at 1250 ISO, which suggests that Sony's internal conversion to Rec.709 for viewing needs to be tweaked, but if they are using the waveform to look at the S-Log signal and think it looks "low" then perhaps they just disagree with what Sony thinks where values should be placed in a log curve.

 

Whereas when shooting on an Alexa, setting your meter to 800 ISO and the camera to 800 ISO seem to line up just fine when using a waveform to look at the Rec.709 monitor output.

 

But either way, it seems to me that this is a minor problem that can easily be resolved with the Sony in the camera prep.

 

As for color, any log recording needs to be color-corrected so any "bias" is usually easily corrected out.  


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#148 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:53 PM

Oh it's not so much to the on the day changes, for me it was the figuring out why the camera was soo weirdly set up and spending an hour  looking for the one setting to enable to stupid menu to put it in SLOG mode. The camera came painted to high heavens with lovely pink skin-tones and greenish skies for some reason.

 

 

Thats pretty easy TBH...1 Menu. 2 System ..3 Base setting.. 4 Custom or EI. EI Brings up Slog2 or 3 with the relevant color gamuts.. 3 button pushes..and your there..  of course its harder when your under the gun and a dir looming over your shoulder..it has its quirks but Sony menus aren't really difficult.. there is some logic too them.. they are just long .. as the camera can do alot of things.. but Slog is very simple as all the matrix/paint/ WB ,, etc menus are greyed out on purpose.. its actually alot like shooting film... constant  ISO and 3 color balances ..REC 709 built in EVF LUT..  press REC..


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#149 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 08:59 PM

Wasn't so much under the gun; just in nowhere in a hotel room prepping for the next morning. The fact it was in  System and not in the other areas was what threw me for a long time (a whole beer's time!)

Got it eventually but when nowhere with no wifi to look it up and no prep, yeah wasn't great but certainly dind't put me off the system.


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#150 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:03 PM

I haven't shot with the Sony F55 yet but talking to cinematographers over the years about it, they all seem to figure out how to use it just fine, some have done multiple seasons of television with that camera, shooting hundreds of hours of footage.  

 

But I do think there is room for improvement because many cinematographers seem to find the need to light the camera to a lower ISO than the one being recording in S-Log for some odd reason, like set their meters to 1000 or 800 ISO when the camera is set to 1250 ISO.  I don't know if they are using a waveform on the Rec.709 signal and feel it looks "low" when exposing at 1250 ISO, which suggests that Sony's internal conversion to Rec.709 for viewing needs to be tweaked, but if they are using the waveform to look at the S-Log signal and think it looks "low" then perhaps they just disagree with what Sony thinks where values should be placed in a log curve.

 

Whereas when shooting on an Alexa, setting your meter to 800 ISO and the camera to 800 ISO seem to line up just fine when using a waveform to look at the Rec.709 monitor output.

 

But either way, it seems to me that this is a minor problem that can easily be resolved with the Sony in the camera prep.

 

As for color, any log recording needs to be color-corrected so any "bias" is usually easily corrected out.  

 

The use of a lower ISO for the f55 and the f5.. AFAIK from using it and all the forums, is not to do with the REC709 MLUT .. but purely for better NR .. there are many who feel the "real" ISO of the f55 is not 1250 but more like the Arri at 800 ISO.. although there are more who just go with the native ISO.. personally I usually go with the native ISO .. its just a personal preference really.. The BBC nat history unit told us to shoot native ISO..on the F55.. 


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#151 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:09 PM

Wasn't so much under the gun; just in nowhere in a hotel room prepping for the next morning. The fact it was in  System and not in the other areas was what threw me for a long time (a whole beer's time!)

Got it eventually but when nowhere with no wifi to look it up and no prep, yeah wasn't great but certainly dind't put me off the system.

Yes know the feeling.. one of the main reasons I bought a camera and pretty much only use that camera ..I know it back to front now ,and no cold sweats trying to change settings in the heat of battle.. ! or in some hotel room in a small town in Outer Mongolia ..

Although system/base settings is fairly logical place to have it. no ?.. 


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#152 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:20 PM

Personally I think it would be better placed with the rest of the gamma settings/look settings like that. Seems to make more sense. System is kinda where I'd be looking to change it from 60hz to 50hz. Or maybe, better yet a new menu group, a major one, called "LOG" or something like that. So menu; then there's a "picture" or "look" main menu, with it in there, or a menu press then "log" right there in front of you.


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#153 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:21 PM

 

But I do think there is room for improvement because many cinematographers seem to find the need to light the camera to a lower ISO than the one being recording in S-Log for some odd reason, like set their meters to 1000 or 800 ISO when the camera is set to 1250 ISO.  I don't know if they are using a waveform on the Rec.709 signal and feel it looks "low" when exposing at 1250 ISO, which suggests that Sony's internal conversion to Rec.709 for viewing needs to be tweaked, but if they are using the waveform to look at the S-Log signal and think it looks "low" then perhaps they just disagree with what Sony thinks where values should be placed in a log curve.

 

Whereas when shooting on an Alexa, setting your meter to 800 ISO and the camera to 800 ISO seem to line up just fine when using a waveform to look at the Rec.709 monitor output.

 

 

The F55 can be a little noisy at 1250 ISO, so most people rate it at 800 ISO. In CineEI mode, it's always recording at 1250 ISO, so when you change the ISO on camera, all it's doing is changing the gain applied to the LUT on the monitor. It makes no difference to the recording.

 

On a day exterior, you probably wouldn't see any noise, and there are plenty of people who use it at native ISO under those conditions, but for everything else 800 ISO seems to be the sweet spot for noise, just as some people rate the Alexa at 400ISO to get cleaner shadows.


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#154 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:01 PM

Personally I think it would be better placed with the rest of the gamma settings/look settings like that. Seems to make more sense. System is kinda where I'd be looking to change it from 60hz to 50hz. Or maybe, better yet a new menu group, a major one, called "LOG" or something like that. So menu; then there's a "picture" or "look" main menu, with it in there, or a menu press then "log" right there in front of you.

 

 

Yes sure Im not saying its the best menu.. I would do it differently too.. but thats probably the problem.. so would anyone else.. but the answer is also there.. first thing that comes up is the User menu.. you can have any individual item for any menu page.. or just the whole page.. its customizable (is that a word) down to the smallest item.. I very rarely ever go out of this menu.. everything is exactly as I would have it..

 

FYI there is no 50/60hz setting on the f5/55.. I prefer this.. you have all the shutter speeds and frame rates all the time.. non of this 50hz only values .. 60hz only..eg  you are shooting 25p in the US but there is no 1/60th shutter.. bit of an idiot proof thing thats dangerously prosumer territory.. :)


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#155 Mark Dunn

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 04:35 AM

 (a whole beer's time!)

 

Now that is serious. They're definitely crap if they keep you from beer.


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