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#1 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:38 PM

Hi guys,

Here's my lastest short film. Let me know what you think. This was low budget as it was paid from my pocket. A labour of love. Hope you enjoy.



Pass: mhpshort

Cheers
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#2 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:07 PM

Hello Tiago, thanks for sharing!

 

What a beautiful work you pull it off, love the oniric cinematography and the story. The talent (the little girl) was great, and I assume that has a lot of challenges flimming a little kid. Love the way you tell the story and how the parents are being reveal once the are closed to their daughter.

 

There's not a lot to say in a critique way. Maybe could be shorter? I never feel it like is long because the beautiful shots but maybe you could tell the same story in fifteen minutes or less.

Then, I noticed some minor (really minors for a low budget production) issues with sound, like for example some a little too loud sounds fx, for example when the girl shut the door in 12:40 or the bottle sound in 13:38. Maybe the shots in the minute 06:50, when the girl is walking below the trees are kinda blow up, but is kinda an esthetic choose.

 

 

I really don't have a lot to say about the short, besides congratulations (parabens!) and keep the good work!

 

Bye!


Edited by Giacomo Girolamo, 03 January 2018 - 02:08 PM.

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#3 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

Visually looked pretty impressive.

 

Your ADR mixing needs work at around 14:00 (where I noticed it at least). You need your talent to be further from the microphone when dubbing (make sure the room doesn't have lots of reflections either).


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#4 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:48 PM

Hello Tiago, thanks for sharing!

 

What a beautiful work you pull it off, love the oniric cinematography and the story. The talent (the little girl) was great, and I assume that has a lot of challenges flimming a little kid. Love the way you tell the story and how the parents are being reveal once the are closed to their daughter.

 

There's not a lot to say in a critique way. Maybe could be shorter? I never feel it like is long because the beautiful shots but maybe you could tell the same story in fifteen minutes or less.

Then, I noticed some minor (really minors for a low budget production) issues with sound, like for example some a little too loud sounds fx, for example when the girl shut the door in 12:40 or the bottle sound in 13:38. Maybe the shots in the minute 06:50, when the girl is walking below the trees are kinda blow up, but is kinda an esthetic choose.

 

 

I really don't have a lot to say about the short, besides congratulations (parabens!) and keep the good work!

 

Bye!

 

Thanks Giacomo!

 

I'll definitely look into those critiques on sound mixing. I wanted the sound of the door closing to be loud and full and really sound like an FX instead of a simple door closing. The idea of the little girl going off the door is scary, so I wanted that effect on the door closing. Maybe I took it too far... lol

 

I also agree that this story could be shorter. But I wanted to create a sort of tone to the first part and then have a second, more realistic, segment to the film that would create contrast with the first. So the first, more oniric segment, ended up with a certain duration and tempo that I simply couldn't cut in post, otherwise it wouldn't work. lol

 

Thanks for your critique!


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#5 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

What camera did you use for this? Cinematography looks really nice. 


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#6 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:51 PM

Visually looked pretty impressive.

 

Your ADR mixing needs work at around 14:00 (where I noticed it at least). You need your talent to be further from the microphone when dubbing (make sure the room doesn't have lots of reflections either).

 

Thanks Macks! I'll look into it. Maybe it's something I can fix with EQ. 


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#7 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:53 PM

What camera did you use for this? Cinematography looks really nice. 

 

Hi Landon. This was shot entirely on the Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4.6k. I was able to use one of my favorite budget lens: Tokina 28-70 2.6 (angie formula) for most of the indoor stuff.


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#8 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

I had a feeling it was Blackmagic. The more footage I see from the 4.6k, the more impressed I become with it. It looks very filmic, with good highlight roll-off and a not overly-sharp image for a 4K sensor.

 

But the film looks great, and the acting is spot-on. Having worked with kids in the past, I know that it can sometimes be a challenge - but is often very rewarding in the end. There was a few minor ADR issues as Macks pointed out, but nothing that was enough to distract from the film - and certainly understandable in a low-budget sort of project. 


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#9 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

 

Thanks Macks! I'll look into it. Maybe it's something I can fix with EQ. 

Eh, when it comes to limiting low end, EQ can risk things sounding like a radio filter. Microphone technique is crucial. One of the reasons I hate it when people call ADR "relying on post".


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#10 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

Eh, when it comes to limiting low end, EQ can risk things sounding like a radio filter. Microphone technique is crucial. One of the reasons I hate it when people call ADR "relying on post".

 

You're right. I'll see if I spot the voice over plosives (I'm guessing it's plosives you're refering to) and try to EQ them out instead of EQing the whole voice. It's a bit of hard work, but it should work.


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#11 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:49 PM

No it isn't just plosives. The overall feeling of the voices sounds like they're 8 inches away as opposed to 2 feet away. The proximity effect is what's getting you.


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#12 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:50 PM

Eh, when it comes to limiting low end, EQ can risk things sounding like a radio filter. Microphone technique is crucial. One of the reasons I hate it when people call ADR "relying on post".

That's only if you REALLY take a chunk of the low frequencies, if you use an EQ in the right way (a good sound enhance is when you don't notice it) you don't have to worry about that.

 

The problem in filmmaking and cinematography is that a lot of people thinks that sound is just a tiny part of editing, and that editing is something they can do without a problem, because is their project. And not at all, sound engineering is a craft like cinematography, which take years to "perfect".

 

Off course, like everything, is best if you catch the problem early and do it right on front, that try to fix it in post, but with work and imagination, you can pull out a lot of things.


Edited by Giacomo Girolamo, 03 January 2018 - 03:52 PM.

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#13 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:06 PM

That's only if you REALLY take a chunk of the low frequencies, if you use an EQ in the right way (a good sound enhance is when you don't notice it) you don't have to worry about that.

 

I can decrease 190hz by 6db and it can screw up an entire vocal track. Slight tweaks can lead to bad audio just as much as extreme tweaks. Utilizing mic technique ensures no matter how little experience one has with mixing, they won't screw up the laws of nature.


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#14 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 06:22 PM

Very useful critiques, thanks guys. Will look into ADR and see what I can spot and fix. I know 25min is probably big for a short and can hurt some of the film's chances in film festivals but, for the tone, I don't feel its long. Or too long.

About the camera, I love this blackmagic camera. It's by far the best blackmagic camera I've used and it's a proper cinema camera at a very nice price.
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#15 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 11:19 AM

 

I can decrease 190hz by 6db and it can screw up an entire vocal track. Slight tweaks can lead to bad audio just as much as extreme tweaks. Utilizing mic technique ensures no matter how little experience one has with mixing, they won't screw up the laws of nature.

Yeap, because 6 db is literally HALF of the volume of sound, is A LOT man.

I'm a sound engineer myself so I did  a lot of work with tv series and movies. And I agree with you, sound (like filmmaking) is a chain, and you need that the first links have good quality because is hard to work with bad material. But in reality not always can, and also, you receive a lot of work that you don't even record, so you need to know how to fix bad quality audio, and how transform the sound and play with it.


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#16 Giacomo Girolamo

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 11:28 AM

Very useful critiques, thanks guys. Will look into ADR and see what I can spot and fix. I know 25min is probably big for a short and can hurt some of the film's chances in film festivals but, for the tone, I don't feel its long. Or too long.

About the camera, I love this blackmagic camera. It's by far the best blackmagic camera I've used and it's a proper cinema camera at a very nice price.

I repeat what I said before. The film is so beautiful that I didn't feel it long, but I really think that can be edit it and cut it even more. More even if you are trying to submit the short to film festivals, I really think you need to cut it a little bit more.

 

If you want my advice, find some good editor (not yourself, because you are to close to the project and the shots) and let he/she edit that beautiful piece of work for you. I really believe that you can end with a more incredible and valuable work, because, like Hemingway used to say, you have to kill your love ones, but in filmaking is easy because somebody can kill your babies for yourself.

 

Bye Tiago, keep the good work!


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#17 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

Thanks Giacomo, very good advice. I don't really know a lot of editors, but I will look for one. :)

 

Thanks!

Tiago


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#18 Samuel Berger

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 03:02 PM

Gostei muito, mas seu curta ficou bem longo. E pois! Se fosse filha minha, nao sentaria por uma semana se saisse pelas ruas sem aviso. Teve sorte que nao foi raptada!
Pois, achei a imagem bestial! Muito bom.

...as they say in Portugal.

Edited by Samuel Berger, 04 January 2018 - 03:02 PM.

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#19 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 03:18 PM

It was a very cute story, but 2 minutes in I was ready to fast forward. The "meat" of the story didn't really come in until way later, like 10 minutes or so. I know pretty shots and VO are cool, but they don't move the story forward in a fast enough way. Also, the hide and seek game lasts WAY too long, but it's not the "edit" it's really the script because it's nearly entirely VO at that point. 

 

In terms of the cinematography, really pretty images, but again you've gotta be mindful about how they move the story forward. It reminded me a lot of a terrence malick movie where imagery is being thrown at you left and right, but it's all too "idyllic" and looks like a DP's demo reel. Over all though, it was well shot and graded. 

 

The audio... well give or take. I mean there were some dialog and effects issues, but that's pretty typical. What turned me off was actually the score. Where it got big, it sounded too low budget, it took away from the powerful imagery. There are some great low-cost resources for really great scores with split up parts so you can use just the piano theme or just the cello theme for instance. I use audio network music, which is inexpensive and I've always been able to find something very close to the theme I'm looking for. Custom scores are great, but to me you've gotta spent A LOT OF MONEY to make it worthwhile. I've only done two custom scores and both of them were real instruments recorded in a studio. 

 

Over-all, it was an enjoyable little story. It would be a great 10 - 12 minute (without credits) short film, but for the simplicity of the story, it's too drawn out I feel. If I were to cut it, we'd have a lot of arguments lol :P


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#20 Tiago Pimentel

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:48 PM

It was a very cute story, but 2 minutes in I was ready to fast forward. The "meat" of the story didn't really come in until way later, like 10 minutes or so. I know pretty shots and VO are cool, but they don't move the story forward in a fast enough way. Also, the hide and seek game lasts WAY too long, but it's not the "edit" it's really the script because it's nearly entirely VO at that point. 

 

In terms of the cinematography, really pretty images, but again you've gotta be mindful about how they move the story forward. It reminded me a lot of a terrence malick movie where imagery is being thrown at you left and right, but it's all too "idyllic" and looks like a DP's demo reel. Over all though, it was well shot and graded. 

 

The audio... well give or take. I mean there were some dialog and effects issues, but that's pretty typical. What turned me off was actually the score. Where it got big, it sounded too low budget, it took away from the powerful imagery. There are some great low-cost resources for really great scores with split up parts so you can use just the piano theme or just the cello theme for instance. I use audio network music, which is inexpensive and I've always been able to find something very close to the theme I'm looking for. Custom scores are great, but to me you've gotta spent A LOT OF MONEY to make it worthwhile. I've only done two custom scores and both of them were real instruments recorded in a studio. 

 

Over-all, it was an enjoyable little story. It would be a great 10 - 12 minute (without credits) short film, but for the simplicity of the story, it's too drawn out I feel. If I were to cut it, we'd have a lot of arguments lol :P

 

Hey Tyler! You actually made my day when you said it reminded you of a Terrence Malick film lol. Tree of Life has to be one of my all time favorites, but I completely understand that people might find it boring or redundant in a way that it doesn't seem to have that pragmatic view of storytelling. I tend to see that more and more, the idea of imagery serving a function in a story (this scene is to show the character; then we need a second very quick scene to show his work, then this scene to show the conflict, etc etc).

 

Don't get me wrong, I also feel it's a very good exercise to remind ourselves what's in each scene and what does it bring that's new. Not necessarily to move the story narratively speaking, but maybe to make us feel something different about the character. For example, my film has a 3min introduction of a little girl's dream of the perfect world, where she speaks of her idea of happiness, how she sees other kids playing, how she imagines them playing, etc. Of course, I know I could've done this in 30 seconds. But then I started getting in love with these ideas: the idea of showing her crying and how her idylic mom was there taking care of her. The idea of lost footprints in the beach and how she's imagining other kids playing. The idea of her playing with her mom, of whom we just have a glimpse of her gigantic and distorted arms. I know I could've gotten the basic idea through without so much, but I also kind of feel I'm more installed in that emotion, as a viewer (well, I'm not really a viewer, am I? lol) and the drastic reality check when the girl wakes up, hits harder. It's not just creating an idea, but more about creating a character (at least my try at it, of course).

 

I'm sure we'd have arguments, if you were to cut the film, but I'm sure it'd be great arguments and it would only serve the film. Thanks for taking the time to watch this and writing about it!


Edited by Tiago Pimentel, 04 January 2018 - 07:51 PM.

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