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#1 Dan Hasson

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:36 PM

Hi,

 

So I've just got a picture lock on a short I recently directed. Anything I've directed previously to this has all been self shot and completely edited myself.

But now I have been fortunate to have a crew on set and now in post, a sound mixer!

 

I was under the assumption that the grade would happen after the sound mix. The mixer has said it doesn't have an impact on them. So should I just send off the film for the mix and I can get it graded after (in DiVinci), or do any of you think it should be done before?

 

Also can the titles/credits be added after the mix?

 

 

Thanks!


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#2 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:43 PM

I personally grade before mixing but video and audio are 2 separate universes married together on a reel. Do what's the most convenient for you.


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#3 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:46 PM

I generally do sound mixes and graphics before I grade. Then when I'm in DaVinci, all I have to worry about is picture. Sometimes I will mate the finished audio with the picture IN DaVinci and export the final right out of there using the camera original masters. 

 

On professional productions, these tasks are done by 3 different "groups" 

 

- Editorial 

- Coloring 

- Post Audio 

 

Generally editorial and post audio will work very closely, as there will always be updates to picture being made during the post audio process, which gets very annoying as you can imagine. 

 

Generally, color isn't done until the picture is LOCKED. 


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#4 aapo lettinen

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

on larger productions the sound and color and vfx are normally done at the same time after the movie has picture lock. 

 

one exports the audio for sound work from edit program, normally in OMF, and a reference picture for sound editor in mid quality format (ideally intra codec one like proresLT fullhd or similar). 

 

Then exporting a playout for online editing reference and exporting the image to XML for transferring it to online and grade. This may vary a bit from production to production but generally this way.

 

Online editing, linking to the camera originals. then transferring the image to color grading and the select vfx shots to VFX work (ungraded vfx shots in fullrez 16bit TIFF or dpx for example) 

 

Grading the image. 

GRADE VERSION PLAYOUTS AND AUDIO MIX PREVIEWS ARE TRANSFERRED BETWEEN AUDIO DEPT AND PICTURE POST AND UPDATED TO THE AUDIO AND GRADE PROJECTS WHEN NEW VERSIONS ARE READY 

 

Finishing the grading, vfx, titles etc. and exporting the image out with reference audio or without audio in the required formats and resolutions (jpeg2000, TIFF, proreshq, prores444, etc. in fullhd, DCI 2k scope, DCI2k flat, 4k, etc. ) frames 1:1 

 

Finishing the sound mix and exporting the different audio masters (R128 tv mix in 5.1 and stereo, M&E mixes, different stems, Theater mix in 5.1, ATMOS, etc.) and sending the files to picture post in wav files . In some PAL countries like Finland it is normal to do 24fps theater versions and conformed (sped up) 25fps tv sound mixes on both the final mixes and stems

 

Mastering to DCP, prores, etc by combining the audio and picture. PICTURE FRAMERATE CAN BE CHANGED AT THIS POINT WITHOUT QUALITY LOSS by conforming 24 <---> 25 and adding the corresponding audio tracks 

Different customers need different files, framerates, audio channel order, etc.

 

Subtitling files can be done by: 

1. sending the final dialogue lists for translations 

2. sending the picture locked timecoded edit playout for timing 

3. sending a timecoded preview of the final movie for timing check. separate preview files for 24fps and 25fps timing are needed 

---->subtitles delivered to picture post and customers in .890, srt, etc. formats for dcp, tv use, bluray/dvd use, web screeners, etc. and combined to the masters if needed or delivered separately per customer orders

 

 

Audio, vfx, grading, online is not practical to do if the edit is not locked, one needs to do the changes partially manually which wastes lots of time and resources. so do the picture lock first and then the post, you will make your post crew happy by not ordering constant changes on the fly ;)


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#5 aapo lettinen

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:31 PM

on a larger production (like a feature film) the parallel working procedure may save anything from 1.5 months to 1 year of post time because people don't need to wait for the finished version from other dept (audio, online, grade, vfx ) before they can begin their own work. 

VFX is normally done here to the ungraded RGB versions taken from the online or grading program processing the original camera files (prores, raw in full resolution, using the same raw settings than the grading will use) and the shots and the all movie can be graded when the VFX guys are working their part, then the grade updated to the imported finished VFX renders on the grading program when the VFX is ready.

this can be done even couple of days before making the DCP because the different depts have been able to work in parallel and it is just importing the files and copy paste the grade when working this way. same with finished audio tracks, they can be combined just before rendering the end deliveries and everything in between can just use the latest preview version available.

 

of course, if one wants to constantly change the picture lock during the picture+audio post, then this all goes to peanuts and the post producer and line producer will not be very happy B)


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#6 Dan Hasson

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:42 AM

Thanks so much for all the info/help guys! Its been very useful and interesting to read.

Cheers,

Dan


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#7 Dan Hasson

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

So just another question.... I've just tried exporting from Premiere Pro to an AAF file. But I get a message like this: 

 

Cannot embed audio source "/Volumes/Heavy Luggage 1TB/Film/Rushes/Sound/Indoors/HEAVY _0043S1.wav" because an error occurred when writing essence data. Premiere ASL error number: -2147483647.

 

Anyone know what the problem is?

Thanks


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#8 Dan Hasson

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:24 AM

And I am using Premiere Pro CS6 if you need to know.


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#9 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:01 PM

So just another question.... I've just tried exporting from Premiere Pro to an AAF file. But I get a message like this: 
 
Cannot embed audio source "/Volumes/Heavy Luggage 1TB/Film/Rushes/Sound/Indoors/HEAVY _0043S1.wav" because an error occurred when writing essence data. Premiere ASL error number: -2147483647.[/size]
 
Anyone know what the problem is?
Thanks


Sounds like it can't write the cache file for that audio. Premiere is a real joke when it comes to these issues.

Make a new sequence, copy and paste JUST The picture and then export the AAF. :)
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#10 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:06 PM

Can't really help with audio, I use Audition for audio - not Premiere. Have you installed the latest updates to CS6?


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#11 Dan Hasson

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

Sounds like it can't write the cache file for that audio. Premiere is a real joke when it comes to these issues.

Make a new sequence, copy and paste JUST The picture and then export the AAF. :)

 

Can't really help with audio, I use Audition for audio - not Premiere. Have you installed the latest updates to CS6?

Its all sorted now. The post sound mixer asked for an OMF export instead and its all worked fine.

Thanks guys!


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