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Type of ropes for 8x8 outside


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#1 Rick Gates

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:54 PM

Hello,

 

Just bought my first 8x8 frame and a couple of silks.  It comes with 5/8 inch studs on the sides, and I have a couple of combo stands with lolipops to hold it outside.

 

However, I know that it's recommended to tie it down when outside.  Since I'm new, I thought I should ask the pros what the size/type of rope to go with.  Of course I want something strong but light, however, I'm guessing paracord is not the stuff to go with?


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#2 ANTON CHIA

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:02 PM

Paracords are rated for 550lbs? IMHO, do not underestimate the power of wind.


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#3 Rick Gates

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:18 PM

Nope, don't want to risk it, especially since I'm new at it.

 

I'm guessing that paracord will also stretch a bit, and I'm not sure I'd want any of that either.


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#4 JD Hartman

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:09 PM

No to the paracord.  Essentially "clothesline", #6 or #8, two lines on an 8x8.  Do you have enough "hands" to keep an overhead frame safe in winds?  Unlikely that you going to: find things to tie it down to; have enough sandbag to make up for a lack of Grips; be able to drive anchor spikes in an urban environment.


Edited by JD Hartman, 28 January 2018 - 03:10 PM.

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#5 Rick Gates

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 06:44 PM

Sounds like I should get some more sandbags.

 

I hear what you say about rigging it on my own.  Maybe if I set it up without the rags first, tight in the combo stands and tied off with ropes.  And then add the fabric.

 

Thanks for the tip on the ropes.


Edited by Rick Gates, 28 January 2018 - 06:45 PM.

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#6 Chris Steel

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:00 AM

8mm Jute is pretty standard here. The stuff with a synthetic core. Not the strongest rope ever but a good all purpose cord.

 

Learn a truckers hitch to keep the line tort against wind.

Know when to take the frame down. If the winds are picking up and it's looking dangerous, undo the silk and take the frame down.

 

I'm sure more experienced people will have some good advice on how to know when that point is.


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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:56 PM

Tying it to vehicles isn't a bad idea. Just make sure it doesn't fall onto vehicles.

 

This calculator is useful. The area of an 8x8 is about six square metres (since (8x12x25.4/1000)2 = 5.945) which in a 20-knot (10.2m/s) wind will apply a force of 375N, equal to about 38 kilos or 83lb. 20 knots is not much of a breeze. Calculating the tension applied to a tie-down is unfortunately not straightforward but it may significantly exceed the wind force. Assuming the frame is upright and square on to the wind and the tie-downs are at a 45 degree angle to both the ground and the frame, and the tie-downs are pointing directly into the wind, the tie down system overall might experience a load of up to 1.41 times the wind load. The more vertical the ropes become or the greater the angle between the tie-downs and the oncoming wind, the worse it gets.

 

Even quite basic synthetic ropes can have a breaking strain of around a metric ton (2200lb) at 8mm diameter so you are unlikely to break any reasonable rope but it's easy to drag or uproot an anchor. Calculating the force required to drag an object along a complex surface is extremely un-straightforward.

 

Can't say I'd reach for jute or any other natural fibre rope for this.

 

P


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#8 Chris Steel

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Pure jute (hemp jute) has a breaking load of about half a ton (1100lb) so much more easily broken under heavy loads compared to what Phil has mentioned.

 

I can't find the brand that Panalux send out but it's a course Jute with synthetic core. I should think it could handle about a ton but probably no more than that. It's more of a general purpose cord than a heavy load rope. Anything bigger than a 12'x12' should definitely have decent synthetic ropes holding it down.


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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

To be fair the jute would be fine if it's consistently capable of that loading. You'd have to be out in (literally) storm-force, 90 plus knot winds to break the rope, by which point you'd have to have a butterfly frame capable of withstanding something like a 7.2 metric ton wind loading. Which they won't.

 

P


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#10 Rick Gates

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:35 PM

OK, so I'll watch the weather (in can be blustery in Oregon).

 

I originally thought I could just tie each rope off to 3 sandbags (about 50 lbs), but after listening to you guys, I think I'll have to come up with something beefier.  I like the idea of vehicles.

 

Thanks all.


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#11 Ed Conley

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 11:54 AM

Sounds like I should get some more sandbags.

 

I hear what you say about rigging it on my own.  Maybe if I set it up without the rags first, tight in the combo stands and tied off with ropes.  And then add the fabric.

 

Thanks for the tip on the ropes.

 

set up the stands, attach the frame in the horizontal position, bag the stands, attach the ropes then attach the rag. You can secure the ropes to anchor points with slack. Then raise the frame/rag to where you need it.


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#12 Ed Conley

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 11:57 AM

keep a couple #8 Cotton sash in yer kit.

 

they're fine for an 8x8

 

https://www.homedepo..._-205326995-_-N

 

or wherever you can find it.


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#13 Rick Gates

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 01:47 PM

Thanks Ed, for the rope link, and for the steps in securing the 8x8.  That's kind of what I had in mind, but starting with the frame horizontal makes sense.

 

I also found mention of the Figure 9 carabiners from Nite Ize and I'll probably keep them in the bag with the ropes.

 

I had fun in the wind yesterday with my first time outside with a 4x4 piece of 1.5" beadboard.  Man, I'll bet that stuff snaps off all the time.

 

Cheers all!


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#14 Ed Conley

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

Thanks Ed, for the rope link, and for the steps in securing the 8x8.  That's kind of what I had in mind, but starting with the frame horizontal makes sense.

 

I also found mention of the Figure 9 carabiners from Nite Ize and I'll probably keep them in the bag with the ropes.

 

I had fun in the wind yesterday with my first time outside with a 4x4 piece of 1.5" beadboard.  Man, I'll bet that stuff snaps off all the time.

 

Cheers all!

 

Cut a piece of Foamcore to 4x4 and tape it to the beadboard for stiffness.


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#15 Ed Conley

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 04:06 PM

Out in Mojave I saw my friend riding a 6x6 butterfly on a medium roller set up ....across the dry lake bed :)


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#16 Rick Gates

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 04:15 PM

Yeah, it's surprising how much of a sail it becomes.

 

Thanks for the tip about the foamcore backing on the beadboard Ed.


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#17 JD Hartman

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 07:04 AM

The rope recommended is fine, except it's special order at all Depot locations, all they carry in-store is a white synthetic sash.  With the seven day delivery time for pick-up in-store, you might as well buy from a mail-order grip supply, Amazon or Fleabay.  Might be smart to find a local supplier of cordage for those times that you got to have it right now.


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#18 Rick Gates

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:14 AM

Thanks JD, I picked up a couple of 50 footers for the same price at Amazon.


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