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ARRI ALEXA LF - 4k, FullFrame announced at BSC

Alexa LF Arri 4k netflix

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#1 Vladimir Cazacu

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 05:28 AM

Looks like Arri just announced a new camera at the BSC expo that should cover Netflix's broadcast requirements.

 

Taken from 4kshooters.net

 

  • Large Format 4K ALEVIII Sensor (from the ALEXA family)
  • Compatible with Full-Frame Lenses
    • New ARRI Signature Primes at T1.8 (mostly)
  • Sensor is slightly bigger than 35mm full-frame
  • Familiar ALEXA SXT family body design
  • 4K ProRes recording options
  • ARRIRAW at 150fps
  • SxS or SXR Capture Drives depending on configuration
  • Netflix/Amazon and other UHD/4K deliverables compliant
  • New LPL mount for large format lenses
  • Compatible with S35 lenses
  • Wi-Fi enabled
  • Basic pricing starts at €74,000
  • Available in March 2018

Edited by Vladimir Cazacu, 02 February 2018 - 05:28 AM.

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#2 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:32 AM

Here's their little link to their page on it:

 

http://www.arri.com/largeformat/


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#3 Albion Hockney

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:06 PM

I was hoping after 8 years there would be a new sensor rather then just a larger one. I wonder how development is going in general for  technology that gives more latitude and color information. Since the first Alexa sensor it seems the forward progress has been very incremental for all manufactures. Finally Sony and Red may have caught up, but I'm not sure if the Venice or Monstro are really any better (was really unimpressed by images from venice thus far) 

 

Good news for current Alexa owners though, that investment is still going strong. 3.2k to 4k ...I don't know if that matters to anyone except for Netflix and VFX. 


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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 01:43 PM

This was unexpected and great news from Arri! Thank god they jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

With that said, I'm slightly disappointed it's not higher resolution then a tad bit over 4k. I understand their reasoning, larger pixels = better light sensitivity. However, I fret it will be outdated very fast as more and more manufacturers move to 6 and 8k designs. It's also unfortunate it needs full frame glass and they have a special lens mount. 


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#5 Michael Rodin

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 04:49 PM

I doubt any distributors will demand production to shoot 8K. There's no economical point in installing 8K projection, and 8K home entartainment just sounds too idiotic to come true. But when it comes to idiocy, there's always an executive that's pushing the limit, so who knows... That said, original Alexas without onboard Arriraw are still relevant in-demand cameras.


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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 07:14 PM

There's not enough 8K content, Netflix, Amazon, etc. are still building 4K libraries!

 

I noticed that the new VistaVision sized AlevIII sensor is the same height as the one in the Alexa 65, just less wide.

 

I think it's a good business move on ARRI's part -- it doesn't obsolete a bunch of 35mm sensor Alexas so those owner-operators should be happy.  Plus with the majority of "high-end" post finishing being in 4K, this camera should deliver an excellent 4K image for cinema projection and 4K television.  And I'm sure it didn't take a lot of R&D to come up with this camera. However, it also strikes me as a somewhat conservative step from a engineering standpoint.

 

I wonder if Hawk will market some 1.3X full-frame anamorphic lenses -- I guess they already do with the Hawk 65mm anamorphics but maybe they will rebrand them now because I think people are confused about what they do.


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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 07:19 PM

Honestly; I just don't see the NEED when you could've just used an Alexa 65. Now an Alexa 65 in a Mini-Sized body, that'd be fantastic. I mean nothing against the "full frame" "vistavision" etc, but I'd rather more investment in a 65 equiv system. If you're gonna go big, go big.


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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 07:21 PM

If and when they make the Alexa full-frame "Mini" version, that's going to be very popular.


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#9 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

I called it! :D

 

Mark Kenfield, on 29 May 2017 - 7:53 PM, said:

 

**I'm going to jump into rampant speculation from this point forward** Unless they perhaps create a new class of Alexa altogether and put a Vistavision-sized version of the current Alev III sensor into the body). That'd give them a true 4k sensor, appeal to the large-format madness that seems to have gripped the world, and mostly avoid pissing off the huge number of people who have just recently laid down lots of cash on Minis.


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#10 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:41 PM

Interestingly, the new Vistavision lenses they've released with the LF are T/1.8, which should provide a near-as identical DoF to Master Primes wide-open on a S35mm Alexa. Assuming the optics are following in the tradition of the Master Primes exquisite performance, they should provide a method to truly test and compare the merits of larger format photography to S35mm.


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#11 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:08 PM

Isn't the difference between S35 and FF35 about 1.5X?  So you'd think f/2.0 1/2 FF35 would be the equivalent of f/1.4 S35.


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#12 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:25 PM

Yep, but Master Primes are a T/1.3, so a hair faster than f/1.4, T/1.8 similarly is a hair faster than f/2. So I think we'll see very similar DoF from the two formats at equivalent FoVs.

At any rate, both could be stopped down a fraction from wide open (to T/1.4 and T/2 respectively), for a spot on comparsion.
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#13 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:05 PM

Apparently, Master Primes will cover the Vistavision sensor from 35mm upwards - so people who like no depth of field whatsoever in their images will be happy too! :P


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#14 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 12:43 AM

Apparently, Master Primes will cover the Vistavision sensor from 35mm upwards - so people who like no depth of field whatsoever in their images will be happy too! :P

Makes it easier for art dept/prod design.

Also all the string lights!

 

Honestly, and I'm sure it's just me, but I'm underwhelmed. When you have the Alexa 65, in reality; what does this bring? Higher frame rates? I'd rather the option of higher frame rates on an Alexa 65, to be totally honest. I feel like, in times past, vistavision just isn't the format we're really looking for when we have the option of basically the same sensor in the 65 Alexa with higher resolution to boot and the resources to make the new VV lenses could've probably opened up a new world of optics for 65 acquisition. I mean I get it, sure, it's for the "4K" requirement, but I feel like we were already beyond that with the 65.


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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:10 AM

Well, you probably wouldn't shoot a Netflix show on an Alexa 65 recording 6K uncompressed raw files, but you might shoot one on this LF camera recording 4K ProRes... I suspect this camera is more in the reach of most filmmakers shooting TV and features.  For high-end features, sure, why not use the Alexa 65!


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#16 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:34 AM

Just when everyone has learnt the f55 menus.. !  


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#17 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 04:08 AM

I called it! :D

Yes you did! But I suspect a number of us felt this was coming, Arri are too business savvy to miss out on a growing market, and combining the full frame thing with 4K seemed almost inevitable.

Well, you probably wouldn't shoot a Netflix show on an Alexa 65 recording 6K uncompressed raw files, but you might shoot one on this LF camera recording 4K ProRes... I suspect this camera is more in the reach of most filmmakers shooting TV and features.  For high-end features, sure, why not use the Alexa 65!

Yes exactly, this camera fills a niche between the only-rentable Alexa 65, which needs large format lenses, and standard Alexas that fall slightly short of 4K resolution requirements. It can take both XPL lenses made for large format, and the growing number of full frame PL lenses or even standard PLs, and is compatible with all the usual Alexa accessories. As David said, it is a conservative step, retaining the same sensor and colour science (which is undoubtedly successful), but conservatism has been Arris modus operandi for many years.

It's interesting that Netfix did just produce a movie shot with the Alexa 65, the $100 million "Bright", and yet the movie that garnered Netflix its first Oscars, the $10 million "Mud Bound" (admittedly only distributed by Netflix), was shot on sub 4K Alexa Minis in Open Gate with old Panavision lenses. That movies cinematographer, by the way, just became the first woman to ever win a Best Cinematography Oscar, which I was surprised got no mention whatsoever on this forum. But that discussion probably needs a seperate thread.

Edited by Dom Jaeger, 03 February 2018 - 04:12 AM.

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#18 Ignacio Aguilar

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 05:44 AM

I wonder what's going to happen with all the high-end glass that won't cover the Open Gate mode of the sensor. Many sets will cover the 16/9 UHD mode, which is only bit larger than Red Dragon 6K, but the wider lenses will show problems as well. Zoom lenses should work with extenders and may need some remarking for lenght, focus and stops, but are easier to make them cover than many expensive primes, such as S4's, than can't be used with this camera in large format. Old lenses such as Zeiss Standards, which are still very popular, won't cover till 40mm or so, while Superspeeds should cover from 25mm and upwards because the image circle (illumination) is very large (side performance will be another matter).

 

And many cinematographers will find out the hard way that you can't shoot at T1.3 on VistaVision sized sensors if they want something clearly focused.

 

Funny times are coming and glass price may get cheaper for certain sets of lenses, while others may be more expensive. 


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#19 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:09 AM

she won the Oscar.. ?.. I heard the first women nominated .. which in itself is great.. it was only a few years ago that a women won the gong for best director !!.. and there are alot more women feature directors around than DOP,s..


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#20 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:17 AM

Sorry, yes, nominated!
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