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Schmid editor info please !


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#1 Doug Palmer

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:35 AM

I have a Schmid 16mm editing machine and I'm not familiar with it. No instructions and I can't seem to find anything online.   It runs forwards but doesn't go backwards, unless there's something I'm missing...  And there is no direct drive to the sprockets (surely this is wrong ?), so there's a strain apparently at the takeup hub, causing the spindle to slip and not turn.    But maybe I'm not doing things correctly.  Any help much appreciated ! ^_^

 

This machine was formerly used by Raj Kothari who sadly died early last year.  He was an assistant editor on Gandhi, and his father was instrumental in encouraging Attenborough to make that movie.

 


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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:45 AM

Any chance of some internal photographs? I'm familiar with Steenbecks but did use a Schmid years ago. I think few were made and they weren't very durable, hence the lack of info..
Flatbeds don't like long-term neglect, so a good clean and service wouldn't hurt unless it's something serious such as shredded timing belts.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 12 March 2018 - 06:48 AM.

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#3 Simon Wyss

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:45 AM

Gee, Schmid are an orgy of belts and washers. Your example probably needs a go-through and CLA. Let me suggest the Moviola line of products, simple and efficient.


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#4 Mark Dunn

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:05 AM

 

Gee, Schmid are an orgy of belts and washers. Your example probably needs a go-through and CLA. Let me suggest the Moviola line of products, simple and efficient.

Do you know the story about the farmer who was asked for directions and replied "Well, I wouldn't start from here"?

OP has a Schmid. He is where he is.

My Steenbeck needed quite a bit of work, and some money, before it was perfect. I did the work and now it is. OP may wish to do the same. I'll help him if I can.

 


Edited by Mark Dunn, 12 March 2018 - 07:06 AM.

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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:33 AM

Right, I did complete a Steenbeck 938 myself, did work to a 6001 to make it run, had a Schmid and a Kägi (unknown make). As I have written, Mark, Doug’s should be disassembled, parts cleaned, freshly lubricated with the proper grease and oils, reassembled. Electromagnets may be sticky from dried-in oil that wasn’t supposed to get in there in the first place, couple hours of labour. Timing belts require correct tension, friction washers must be seen after. I think Doug knows what awaits him. To check the electrical functions alone can mean half a day.

 

With a Diplomat basically two sprocket rollers of a gang are connected by one endless timing belt. There is an electromagnetic clutch on one of them. One has to raise up or turn the apparatus over, care for underlay, to have access. From the electro clutch one can follow the lines to the corresponding switch. Often a switch has contact fault. Energy supply must be there. Condensors can have a short. Transformer must be in order.

 

That’s why I suggested something reliable and cheaper for a cinch.


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#6 Mark Dunn

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:42 AM

Ah, the dreaded timing belts. I didn't know if it had them, I believe the KEM doesn't. Similar layout to a Steenbeck then.

The Steenbeck's were originally rubber- if they are now dark brown and soft to the touch (you can dig a fingernail in) you're out of luck and they will soon shred. The tell-tale for shredded belts is an interior full of small pieces of rubber.

Steenbecks use DR- type belts which is now obsolete in industry (the pitch is non-standard today) so they are very expensive, but I don't know what type the Schmid uses; because a lot of Steenbecks survive there is a fair bit of knowledge about.

If the belts aren't shredded, roll up your sleeves and start cleaning as Simon says. If they are, see if replacements are available before you waste a lot of time. Or keep it for display. A smoothly running flatbed is a thing of beauty IMO, a wonderful, and very unusual, example of 60s and 70s industrial design, and if you have the material, or plan to generate it, a very useful one.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 12 March 2018 - 11:43 AM.

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#7 Doug Palmer

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:21 PM

Simon and Mark, thanks !   I haven't got around yet to looking inside the beast, only just recovered from humping it into my shop.  As you see the outside at least needs a little clean. Dog hairs !  I still haven't been able to fathom how to go into reverse. I can't find any switch. Can you remember either of you ?  Probably I'm staring at it :) That lever doesn't do anything either. And those 3 switches alongside the buttons.... I realise they activate the sprockets, but the one at far left doesn't work the picture sprockets.  I tried to lace the film round a set of 'sound' sprockets instead, then into the picture channel but that didn't work.  So I guess there's some electrical problem with the picture sprockets, maybe that switch. Next step I suppose is to take the back panels off...at least you can swing the whole thing vertically.  I'd like to think it won't be all a waste of time, as I expect parts are almost non-existent.  However, this flatbed actually runs quieter than my Steenbeck...   

 

editor 1.jpg

 

 

editor 2.jpg


Edited by Doug Palmer, 14 March 2018 - 04:28 PM.

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#8 Doug Palmer

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:06 PM

I guess that lever is meant to activate reverse ?


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#9 Simon Wyss

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 12:31 AM

Can’t remember how the main switch goes. Steenbeck has 0 center from where right turn advances the film and left reverses. I’d lift that switch board out for checking.

 

Yes, Schmid run quieter than Steenbeck.


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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 05:03 AM

As Simon says, since there's no reverse button it may work like the Steenbeck's. To protect the film, the Steenbeck won't run if it's powered up with the selector in reverse- you have to return it to zero. Have you tried moving the switch to the central position first? After all, judging by the dirt, it's been in that position for a long time.

The quite running is presumably down to a smaller cooling fan- the Steenbeck's is pretty big and vibratey. I toyed with the idea of replacing it with computer fans but there doesn't seem to be an always-on 12V supply that's not controlled by the selector.

The toggle switches are confusing.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 15 March 2018 - 05:08 AM.

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#11 Mark Dunn

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 11:20 AM

Also some flatbeds- even some Steenbecks- had microswitches so they wouldn't run unloaded, although I think it was only for sepmag. Check that.
I assume you have a multimeter.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 15 March 2018 - 11:21 AM.

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#12 Doug Palmer

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 04:03 AM

smidt innards.jpg

 

A long time replying, my apologies to Mark and Simon. And thanks so much.

So many other things have got in the way of this little project.

No progress I'm afraid. I've gone through the obvious contacts like on switches. But my problem is lack of space as this monster is occupying a chunk of my small shop, so I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm. It's a shame as it looks so well engineered and so on.  Consequently I think the best thing is to offer it to someone as a gift. But that someone has to take it out of here ! ie. big car or van needed plus some muscles. The whole thing can be dismantled for transport but it's still bloody heavy !

To recap:

It runs forward but the sound sprockets rotate, not the picture sprocket.  None of the reverse take-ups work.

Is anyone out there keen to take it on ?

(Bridport Dorset UK)


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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 04:16 AM

Assuming the picture track timing belt isn't shredded, there's gearing between the sprocket and the polygonal prism so they revolve at different speeds. The grease inside sets solid with age. The symptom is a very hot magnetic clutch, if you can track it down. Obviously I don't know if the Schmid is similar, but I see what I suspect to be magnetic clutches- the metal cans with pulleys on the ends.

The cure was a complete strip-down of the prism assembly. it took most of a day.

Good luck.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 08 May 2018 - 04:17 AM.

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#14 Simon Wyss

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:03 AM

Feel with you. On the other hand, do you know the relief when getting rid of something? At least the above mentioned 938 Steenbeck after I dumped it on the amenity site was like a huge rock falling off my heart. The Moviola that runs the film upright occupies much less space. I know, Europeans prefer the flatbed editor. I’m a European with a strong affinity to American equipment, with some exceptions.

 

By the way, could you try your GIC meanwhile?


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#15 Doug Palmer

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 03:34 AM

Feel with you. On the other hand, do you know the relief when getting rid of something? At least the above mentioned 938 Steenbeck after I dumped it on the amenity site was like a huge rock falling off my heart. The Moviola that runs the film upright occupies much less space. I know, Europeans prefer the flatbed editor. I’m a European with a strong affinity to American equipment, with some exceptions.

 

By the way, could you try your GIC meanwhile?

Ha ha yes I know what you mean. In the past I've dumped many old projectors into the council skip, knowing at least some parts will be likely salvaged.Yes Simon, I've run some Ektachrome on the little GIC but haven't got round yet to get it processed.  I asked Kevin at gaugefilm.co.uk to see if he does the 50ft lengths of 16mm and he says yes, so that's good. (He stopped doing the 100ft rolls)

 

Thanks Mark, I'll have a final look !


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