Jump to content



Photo

Can you rate the quality of Telecine (link to footage x 2)


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:31 AM

Hi all, a continuance of the thread but this time with the Telecine they sent me. I want to know how bad/standard/great the Telecine is......

 

I have saved as a smaller file but visually the same perceivable quality as the file they sent me.....I have also colour corrected the hue......this is a test roll I shot on location with a 100ft roll of Vision3 500T. Camera is an Aaton XTR XC (no electronics at all) and Cooke Varokinetal 9-50mm lens...shot in standard 16mm

 

My comments

I cant believe for a second the footage was that dirty in camera......there's an abnormal amount of 'debri' and flashes in the roll......BUT of course I stand to be corrected and would appreciate anything and everything you can think of.......

 

Link1 (original Telecine)

Password 'crystal'

https://vimeo.com/261796993

 

I run the footage in Photoshop and cleaned up all the debris etc then saved it as a .dpx file for DaVinci Resolve.

The good news is the client loved the retro vibe and I have green light to shoot the project on 16mm as I planned....he said 'the look reminds me of Taxi Driver when De Niro was driving around at night and the camera was on him'......cool with that!


  • 0

#2 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:00 AM

Lots of what I think are handling faults in processing- the diagonal blue-green scuffs- and some flashes or low density which could be light leaks at either end- you or the lab.

I think you're fortunate that the client likes it- flaws like this tend to get added to clean video to make them look like old film!

I wouldn't be happy going back to that lab, but the irony is that a perfectly clean process wouldn't look like what your client has approved!

Was this shot on 100' rolls? I ask because some of the scuffs look like defective processing due to contact between winds as if it was processed on a spiral.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 26 March 2018 - 05:00 AM.

  • 0

#3 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:08 AM

thanks a lot for taking to time to watch this......this was a 100ft roll yes......the light leaks cant imagine how it could be me as I never took the lens off to check for hairs and i taped the magazine big time!!!!!! I also cant imagine it being a fault of the changing tent when i took the film out and put it in the box......

 

YES the client commented that he loved the 'flashes' and stuff......another friend at home whom i showed it too said wow really cool film filters u added hahahah...then i told him it was REAL film

 

...should I send the roll to another lab with a Sprint instead of the Tobin used to Telecine it and see how it compares.....??? i guess I could also ask to see like 10 secs of 2k and see how it all compares.....the opening scene of the man would be the perfect segment to test......


Edited by Stephen Perera, 26 March 2018 - 05:10 AM.

  • 0

#4 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:18 AM

This is the edit I showed the client:

https://youtu.be/tjaD7L3EkR8


  • 0

#5 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:31 AM

It's your call, but there are certainly problems in the processing- since your paying customer is happy paying for what is effectively a test, why not try to get the best result you can- elsewhere? You'll be set up for next time.

There shouldn't be any physical flaws in processing, beyond the odd dust speck or hair.


  • 0

#6 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:42 AM

Hey Mark......for sure need to send the 100ft roll somewhere else get a comparison done......e.g. get the first 10 seconds done on the latest tech Telecine machine like the SPRINT (is that its name?) and 10secs 2k scan and 10 secs 4k can.......

 

London is a good option for me as flights every day from Gibraltar-London and DHL is not expensive to use with a small 100ft case......can you recommend a lab in London or UK in general?????? 

 

I got this off Kodak.....but would they do a bespoke test for me like I want?????

Kodak Film Lab London

The Ken Adam Building, 
Pinewood Studios
Pinewood Road, 
Iver Heath
Buckinghamshire.
SL0 0NH
 
....saying that there MUST be a latest tech lab in Spain.......OR I could send this to BOSTON to our friend!!!!

  • 0

#7 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 26 March 2018 - 06:25 AM

Kodak didn't reply to me when I was looking for sound transcription. I suspect they're only interested in big jobs.
Can't help any further, I only know of Cinelab in Slough.

  • 0

#8 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 26 March 2018 - 07:24 AM

yeah Cinelab in Slough is on my radar.....you dal with them? or should i ask....who do YOU send ur rolls to

?


  • 0

#9 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1655 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:53 AM

Looks like some kind of abrasion on the film, typically that will show up as a blue mark, or possibly some chemistry staining..

 

Also the scan is very problematic, there are interlacing artifacts visible.


  • 0

#10 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:46 AM

yeah Cinelab in Slough is on my radar.....you dal with them? or should i ask....who do YOU send ur rolls to

?

I haven't shot 16mm. since 1991, Super-8 since 2001 or any film at all since 2003. My last frame was the last flight of Concorde- Speedbird 002 on its way to Heathrow from my back garden in 2003.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 26 March 2018 - 11:51 AM.

  • 0

#11 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

Looks like some kind of abrasion on the film, typically that will show up as a blue mark, or possibly some chemistry staining..

 

Also the scan is very problematic, there are interlacing artifacts visible.

I assume it couldn't be in-camera as it's diagonal- that's what makes me think lab handling, or rather mishandling.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 26 March 2018 - 11:52 AM.

  • 0

#12 Nick Collingwood

Nick Collingwood
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York, NY

Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:08 PM

Lovely sequence. Reminds me of the intro to Twin Peaks. You managed to mask many of the processing issues in the edit. I'd definitely say bump up to a 2k scan to really see that 16mm shine. I've heard good things about Gauge Film but as I'm in the US, I send all my stuff to Gamma Ray.


  • 2

#13 Tyler Purcell

Tyler Purcell
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4330 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:39 PM

Honestly, I clicked the link before reading and I thought it was super 8.

So there are a lot of issues...

1) The processing was botched. You can see on static shots the staining look in the background. To be honest, it looks like someone home-processed this footage, doesn't look like a lab did it at all.

2) Looks like film was taken out of the freezer right before use and there was moisture on it.

3) There is A LOT of frame wobble. Make sure your gate spring (right side of the gate) is working. There is also focus issues center of the frame which is very odd for an Aaton to produce, so I doubt that's your camera.

4) The telecine looks like it was done with a single CCD camera using a projector. I've done lots of telecine's that way and that's exactly what they look like. The clues are lack of vibrant colors, interlacing lines (3:2 pulldown), the frame wobble (used/old projectors wobble) and the focus changes which show the lack of decent frame support in the capturing movement.

I'd for sure do a new scan first, but I don't think it will change much. I think most of the problems are baked in thanks to bad processing. :(
  • 0

#14 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:02 AM

Thanks for all your comments and help......
  • 0

#15 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:47 AM

Lovely sequence. Reminds me of the intro to Twin Peaks. You managed to mask many of the processing issues in the edit. I'd definitely say bump up to a 2k scan to really see that 16mm shine. I've heard good things about Gauge Film but as I'm in the US, I send all my stuff to Gamma Ray.

 

thanks for the positive comments.....yes the client liked the dit i did as a proof of concept and it got the job approved so thats the main thing.....now i have to find the correct lab as clearly everyone is of the same opinion as I am that I didn't get back the quality I could have (regardless of my camera work and lighting) in processing/telecine......

 

am indeed going to check out Gauge Film lab in the UK.......


Edited by Stephen Perera, 27 March 2018 - 02:48 AM.

  • 0

#16 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1655 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 27 March 2018 - 11:15 AM

If some of the issues with the film are chemical stains a rewash in a ECN processor can take those out, obviously pressure marks in the emulsion cannot be fixed.

 

It is a nice sequence and looks good considering.


  • 0

#17 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 28 March 2018 - 04:14 AM

argh I really have to find a good lab in Spain cos sending out 500T film through airport X-rays etc etc to UK or US would be a hassle......esp with the paranoia of our modern world


  • 0

#18 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2844 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 28 March 2018 - 04:27 AM

 

thanks for the positive comments.....yes the client liked the dit i did as a proof of concept and it got the job approved so thats the main thing.....now i have to find the correct lab as clearly everyone is of the same opinion as I am that I didn't get back the quality I could have (regardless of my camera work and lighting) in processing/telecine......

 

am indeed going to check out Gauge Film lab in the UK.......

Gauge hand process in spirals. I suspect your lab did as well. You want a machine process, I think.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 28 March 2018 - 04:27 AM.

  • 0

#19 Stephen Perera

Stephen Perera
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Gibraltar, Europe

Posted 29 March 2018 - 08:17 AM

Latest news is for the next rolls I'm going to use either:

1. Cinelab in London for processing film and 2k scanning on a Spirit.....have to think about airport xray machines for the 500T Im using.....if they did Phantom Thread I dare say they're good enough for me hahah

2. Or AugustusColor - Roma, Italia via my kodak supplier in Spain who represents them.....they have Telecine with Spirit or Arriscan at 2k.


  • 0

#20 Perry Paolantonio

Perry Paolantonio
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Other
  • Boston, MA

Posted 29 March 2018 - 08:22 AM

If you're hand delivering film, take it as a carry-on and it'll be fine in the airport x-ray machines. It's the ones that scan checked bags that are more powerful and can mess up the film. 

 

If you're shipping it, you can buy special bags that are supposed to protect the film. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Domke-711-15B-Large-Filmguard-Black/dp/B00009USZ5 I've also seen plastic bags that are lead-lined, specifically for shipping, but i think those are much less common these days. 


  • 0


Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

CineLab

Tai Audio

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post