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#1 Samuel Berger

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:18 PM

I'm interested in this subject. I always automatically assumed everybody was shooting 4K Raw 12-bit because that is how I shoot on the Ursa Mini 4K. But when Tyler posted he shot that Bailee Madison thing in XAVC iframe 410Mbps 4k with REC709 LUT, it got me thinking, "that's not Raw".

 

So I looked deeper into the C300 Mark II and saw that it's not 12-bit, either. So, something is wrong here.

 

A number of cameras are considered more professional than the  Ursa Mini Pro. But they don't even shoot 12 -bit Raw? So people must be shooting in a different digital format.

 

But why would they? Don't they care about 12-bit?

 

 


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#2 Macks Fiiod

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:27 PM

I know tons of people who who take workflow over color specifications. As long as it's 10 bit I'm fine.


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#3 Bruce Greene

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:55 PM

I'm interested in this subject. I always automatically assumed everybody was shooting 4K Raw 12-bit because that is how I shoot on the Ursa Mini 4K. But when Tyler posted he shot that Bailee Madison thing in XAVC iframe 410Mbps 4k with REC709 LUT, it got me thinking, "that's not Raw".

 

So I looked deeper into the C300 Mark II and saw that it's not 12-bit, either. So, something is wrong here.

 

A number of cameras are considered more professional than the  Ursa Mini Pro. But they don't even shoot 12 -bit Raw? So people must be shooting in a different digital format.

 

But why would they? Don't they care about 12-bit?

 

 

I've shot many features on the Alexa in ProRes4444.  I believe it's also 12 bit.  The difference to shooting RAW is very minimal.  And many Alexa users shoot this way.


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#4 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:08 PM

It depends. In editing, if the source material is anything other than RAW, it's transcoded to DNxHR 4:4:4 10-bit for edit. If it's RAW, I'll usually keep it that way.

As for capture, If I'm shooting with the GH4, it's always VLOG-L, recorded to DNxHR 10-bit 4:2:2. If I'm shooting with the Blackmagic Micro, it depends on what the end result is for: 95% of the time I'd choose raw, since I don't bother with ProRes and would have to transcode to DNx anyway. 

I never touch that highly compressed, consumer codec stuff like H264/H265/etc. If I get that, it's trans-coded to DNx on ingest. Most of those super-compressed formats tax my CPU way to much, and result in dropped frames or stutter on playback. 


Edited by Landon D. Parks, 14 April 2018 - 08:10 PM.

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#5 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:45 PM

Most of the jobs I work on are shooting at 12 bit, but it really depends on the camera package. The Canon C300MKII is really only 10 bit, so that's the most it will do.
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#6 Samuel Berger

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:01 PM

Most of the jobs I work on are shooting at 12 bit, but it really depends on the camera package. The Canon C300MKII is really only 10 bit, so that's the most it will do.

 

I love the image from that camera. I actually like a lot of things better in the Ursa Mini Pro, but there's two things...

 

First, the Canon form factor is much more ergonomic for me. Second....well....I own an Ursa Mini 4K and I would feel like I'm buying the same thing again just for the EF mount and internal ND....So it's either the C300 Mark II or the C200.

I placed a bid on a C200. It's out of my hands now. If I win, I can finally stop obsessing over "which camera should I get".


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#7 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 11:24 PM

Wish you could wait for the Pocket 4k! :(

Both the C200 and C300MKII are old designs, which are already outdated... so it's hard to buy as an "investment" sadly.

The UMP is an entirely different camera then the ursa mini 4k, they only share a few connectors... So I wouldn't say buying a UMP would be like buying the same camera.
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#8 Phil Connolly

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:37 AM

The choices you make in lighting, composition and art direction will still have a bigger impact then absolute best codec. Most decent codecs if shot carefully should look fine.

 

I shot a feature on an EX1 (thats 8bit 35mbs HD) years ago and I'm still happy with the way a lot of it looks and the things I'm not happy about the look stem from my lighting choices. 8 bit can look acceptable if you nail the lighting and look in camera to minimise grading. "Blue Ruin" did fine using the 8-bit 50mbs internal codec on the C300, although these days I'm glad we have easy access to 10 and 12 bit cameras. 

 

Its nice to have the best stuff, but good enough is also good enough. The choice of camera is only one of the many choices you make in a film production and only partially responsible for the final image. 

 

I'm shooting my next film on an FS7 because its what I have access too and its good. I won't be worrying that its been replaced by the FS7Mk2 or that I could go high end and rent an Arri or a Red. 


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