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4K/PAL ?

pal secam 4k audio sampling codec c300 II

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#1 jose santos

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:51 PM

Client just sprung a 4K/PAL/25FPS requirement for an upcoming shoot here in US.

 

Already had three C300 II's booked, so the camera is capable.

 

This will be a first for me so I did a blitz of research, came up with these settings etc.

 

Below is what I provided the rental house, who are also a bit puzzled, but efforting.

Suggestions, observations, GOTCHAS, please.

 

Many thanks.

 

SYSTEM: PAL 

RESOLUTION: 4K FULL
AUDIO: 48khz AUDIO SAMPLE RATE (please confirm this makes sense)
CODEC: XF AVC

10BIT 4:2:2
ISO 800
REC 709….OR 2020….NEED ADVICE HERE.
25FPS (YES, 25)
180DEGREES

JAM-SYNC TIME-OF-DAY 24-HOUR CLOCK, FREE RUN
DROP -FRAME

REC OUT 4K RAW: OFF

RELAY RECORDING

ABB PERFORMED

It’s an auditorium shoot. I need Cams A/B to stay tack-sharp on podiums, A head-on, B to the side, Cam C does roving cuts and needs to be able to select focus at the shooter’s discretion.

So, FOCUS SETTINGS:

“C” CAM, “One Shot” focus mode, Face Detection ON, “Face Only” ON, no tracking.

“A” and “B” CAMS, "AF Manual Boosted”, “Face Detection” ON, and I think….”Tracking” off, but we should discuss. 

All cards verified formatted (sorry, and thank


Edited by jose santos, 16 April 2018 - 12:54 PM.

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#2 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:50 PM

Umm, I think all the cameras shoot 24, 25 and 30. The days of PAL being an odd thing are over.

The C300MKII only shoots Clog or Rec709, not Rec 2020.
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#3 jose santos

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:03 PM

Frame rate is not the question. Client wants 25 and I know the C300 is capable. Sorry that I wasnt clear.

 

Per Canon's C300 II lit:

 

The BT.2020 preset uses the Wide DR curve for a contrasty but high detail image inside of a BT.2020 color space. Images produced in this preset are considered ready to air.

 

Wording identical to BT709 in same lit.

 

It may be easier in LA, but here in the National Capital my sophisticated and well equipped rental house has never seen this request.

 

I'm neither, but I am deeply experienced, and I have also never been asked that one.


Edited by jose santos, 16 April 2018 - 02:05 PM.

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#4 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:55 PM

Yea I'm confused on the question then.. The C300MKII doesn't really shoot Rec 2020, it simply compresses the wide gamut image into the standard file, just like pretty much all cameras do. So yes the finished result can be conformed to Rec 2020 if you need to, but this isn't a feature really, it's just a marketing tool to get people excited about something that doesn't really do anything.
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#5 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:15 PM

Shooting 25p in the US I wouldn't use 180 degree shutter.. you will get flicker from many light sources .. you say an auditorium so most likely fluorescent lighting.. you will get flicker at 180 degree,s (1/50th) shutter.. set the camera menu to shutter angle and choose 1/60th.. to be be in sync with 60Hz power supply in the US..  

 

No drop frame with 25p..

 

Ask your client Rec709 or Log ..

 

I would avoid AF.. presuming you have camera operators ..


Edited by Robin R Probyn, 16 April 2018 - 09:16 PM.

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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:21 PM

Certainly roll a test clip and play back on a computer to check for flicker. Adjust shutter accordingly.

I'd go REC709; unless they really want LOG.


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#7 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 01:40 AM

You will very likely get flicker in the US at 25p 1/50th shutter.. the fix is easy.. just set to 1/60th.. . unless there is the odd bulb on the way out.. it wont flicker..at 25p anyway.. 


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#8 jose santos

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:17 AM

GOOOOD CAATCH! This is why you pay the big bucks.

 

I was completely forgetting flicker, which I haven't had trouble with since my last Middle East shoot ages ago.

And I would not have seen it. IE, disaster.

 

Just FYI. I have had great results with AF on 300 II's in these kinds of situations. 


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#9 Chris Steel

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:46 AM

Shutter angles of 75º (1/120s) - 150º (1/60s) - 225º (1/40s) are your choices.

150º is probably your safest option as said above but if you need less motion blur or more light, these are the only speeds that'll be flicker free.


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#10 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:01 PM

GOOOOD CAATCH! This is why you pay the big bucks.

 

I was completely forgetting flicker, which I haven't had trouble with since my last Middle East shoot ages ago.

And I would not have seen it. IE, disaster.

 

Just FYI. I have had great results with AF on 300 II's in these kinds of situations. 

 

 

Yes Ive read the Canon AF is pretty good.. but as you know its still a "machine" and often the cases of much grief .. your problem in the Middle East was likely the same.. but the other way round.. shooting 30p in a 50Hz environment .. the majority of countries in the world use 50hz..


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#11 jose santos

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

Thanks Robin, correct! Fortunately it was subtle, and as it was journalism, not an issue.

Chris, thank you, where are you getting your info? I can’t seem to find my ASC manual, my IOS version of the manual doesnt work since the last update.

You happen to know a London shooter last name of Marriage?
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#12 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:48 AM

Chris, thank you, where are you getting your info? I can’t seem to find my ASC manual, my IOS version of the manual doesnt work since the last update.

 

Chris's info is correct. If you have the PCam app, you can use the HMI Flicker Free calc to calculate 25fps/60hz shutter angles.


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#13 Chris Steel

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:24 PM

Thanks Robin, correct! Fortunately it was subtle, and as it was journalism, not an issue.

Chris, thank you, where are you getting your info? I can’t seem to find my ASC manual, my IOS version of the manual doesnt work since the last update.

You happen to know a London shooter last name of Marriage?

 

I use Pocket AC on my phone but I learned the equation in "The camera assistant" by Douglas C. Hart so that sometimes comes in useful when working with PWM Led fixtures that have odd output frequencies.

 

I don't think I've met anyone by that name. Lots of shooters here so can't have worked with all of them :P


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#14 Robin R Probyn

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:28 PM

Divorce would be much more prevalent.. :)


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