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Canon Scoopic 16mm Kodak 500T Rated @1600 Processed @2000

16mm 500T Pushed 2 Stops Canon Scoopic

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#1 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 12:07 PM

I just got my Canon Scoopic 16 back from Bernie at Super16inc and I'm ready to shoot with it.

 

I've really wanted to test the Kodak 500T stock pushed 2 stops to 2000 but expose it at 1600 for a 1/3 overexposure. I'll be shooting downtown Buffalo, NY at night using street lamps and various city lights and really want to see how this performs. 

 

I have the original grey model scoopic 16 and from the manual, it says it is F stops not T stops and it's 24fps with 1/64 shutter. I have a sekonic L- 478D-U that I will use for metering. 

 

Can anyone give me any tips or let me know if I'm doing something wrong with how I'll be metering and pushing the film?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

-Ryan 


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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 12:23 PM

Sounds OK to me, though I've never pushed any film in my life. I wouldn't expect the quietest, lowest-contrast images ever.


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#3 Karim D. Ghantous

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:28 AM

Eyes Wide Shut was pushed by two stops and that film looked great. At the time, Vision stocks were not nice when pushed, so they used EXR 5298. Vision3, particularly 500T, is terrific when underexposed compared to previous generations. I have seen 7219 pushed by one stop and it looks really nice. Two stops should not be a problem either.


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#4 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 06:25 PM

Sounds OK to me, though I've never pushed any film in my life. I wouldn't expect the quietest, lowest-contrast images ever.

 

Yeah, I'm not looking for something super clean looking. Just curious and want to see the grain and texture I can get with it. I want to shoot using available light at night and test it out for a possible upcoming project. 

 

 

Eyes Wide Shut was pushed by two stops and that film looked great. At the time, Vision stocks were not nice when pushed, so they used EXR 5298. Vision3, particularly 500T, is terrific when underexposed compared to previous generations. I have seen 7219 pushed by one stop and it looks really nice. Two stops should not be a problem either.

 

That's awesome! I haven't seen that film but I've been meaning to watch it. I'll have to check it out.

 

Thanks for the replies guys!


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#5 Karim D. Ghantous

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 07:56 PM

I forgot to give you the link the AC article, which I have posted online now about a dozen times:

 

https://theasc.com/m...9/sword/pg1.htm

 

I think you'll like it. :-)


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#6 Robin Phillips

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 03:50 PM

please definitely post the results when you get them back from the lab. Be it a success or not it'd be great to see what shook out


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#7 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 09:35 PM

Karim, thanks for the link Ill give it a read!

Robin - Ill definetly post the results. Unfortunately, Ive had a big set back. I decided to go with Cinelab and I shipped it out last Monday.

Cinelab received and signed for the film on Wednesday so I was excited to get the process moving I figure 7-14 days from last Wednesday I would see something.

Well today I got home from work and discovered a package for me. It was my film but In a different package than I sent it out in. The film seal was broken from when I sealed it after I finished shooting the roll and sent it off. I thought wow that was super quick to be processed. So I call Cinelab and they said yeah we got just your order form on Wednesday but no film....

So what happened was Fedex damaged my shipping package and the film got separated. And someone at FedEx decided to open my film and break the seal. Then they sent it back. Im very upset with FedEx. Its on a daylight spool so Im hoping they didnt take it out and unwind the film.

Im also kind of upset that Cinelab never contacted me about recieving a damaged package with only an order form and no film. The order form had all my contact information. Not even an email. When I called they knew exactly what package I was talking about too.

So anyway thats where I stand now. I re-sent it out today and it will arrive at Cinelab on Wednesday but then another 7-14 days +1-2 days for push processing according to their website.

I decided to have it pushed 2 1/3 stops. I rated it at 1600 and was mainly shooting at F2.8 and F4 which with the original scoopic lens from what Ive read is not a good choice. This will be an extremely low light test with Kodak 500T and the Scoopic lens. Using only street lamps and parking garage practicals. If the film turns out and wasnt ruined by Fedex then Ill break down the shots of how I metered and why I went with a 2 1/3rd push.

Im having it scanned at 2K with the Xena 5K dynamic Perf data scanner with a flat pass prores 444

Ill keep you updated.
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#8 Nick Collingwood

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 09:06 AM

Oh my god. I would probably want to murder someone at FedEx if that ever happened to my film. That's infuriating!! Opening the can!??!? WTF? Why would they even do that in the first place?? That's like opening someone's private package even if it was separated. They had no need to open that up.

 

But anyways... hopefully it survived. I love CineLab for it's slightly more affordable prices compared to other labs but damn if they don't suuuuuck at communication. I've just grown to accept radio silence from them. But to be honest, that should be the case in this day and age. When I have them send my Super 8 to Gamma Ray Digital for scanning, Perry there is in constant contact with me about my film. Plus better scans in my opinion. CineLab definitely needs to improve on customer service and communication. Agreed.

 

As far as your film, I have never pushed anything that far but for one wedding I shot in this crazy low lit venue, I pushed 500T 1 stop to 1000ASA and it came out.... ok. Granted it's Super 8 so the grain was out of control a bit and very soft image even using my 814XL-S. You can see it starting around 2:30 in the video below. I'm very curious to see how your film turns out.

 


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#9 Karim D. Ghantous

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:21 AM

Nick, that was great stuff. You are not wrong about the softness, and yet Super 8 just looks so good. Compression was the main culprit, though. I think that with proper lenses, Super 8 can be a professional format. I dare say that it's the new 16mm.

 

Even at f/1.4, you have a lot of DOF to work with. With wide-angle lenses you wouldn't even need a focus puller. The key is getting high quality optics, which should not be a huge problem, given the small image circle.

 

Oh, and some kind of optical stabilization. ;-) I suppose you could sacrifice a small bit of frame area for post-stabilization, which would work for a lot of situations. It wouldn't have to be perfect.

 

It says a lot about film that Super 8 is still popular, despite its small frame area. I'm glad I still have one camera from the '90s, and that I bought another one for almost nothing back in 2008 (or so). I haven't used Super 8 since the mid '90s, but I certainly look forward to shooting some again.


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#10 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:07 PM

Alright, I got the film back yesterday and I've played around with it some.

 

This is by no means a scientific test at all. I went out and wanted to see what was possible shooting 7219 rated at 1600 and pushed 2 stops. When I got out and started metering I was really surprised about how much light was really needed, Buffalo is not a very bright city.

 

So even at a 1600 rating, I underexposed almost everything, however, the few shots with proper exposure for what it's worth look great for the aesthetic I want for an upcoming project. I stuck to F2.8 out of fear of the Canon Scoopic lens not being sharp and this really hurt me. The parking garage shots I opened to F1.6 and they look the best exposure wise to me and no less sharp than the rest of the shots. I should have done the same throughout. I mean even at F2.8 everything is soft anyway. I had an extremely difficult time trying to focus in the lowlight scenes. So these are definitely not ideal shooting scenarios for a Canon Scoopic. A lot of the locations were metering at F1.0 - F1.4 

 

All in all, I had a great time shooting my first roll of 16mm and I'm excited to do a more scientific test with my scoopic with charts and then actually shoot a short little 2-3 minute mini-doc with it. 

 

Here is a link to a google drive folder with some stills and some before and after color corrections and some neat video and a little edit I put together of almost all the shots on the roll. 

https://drive.google...ncyqjWkAluKim5u

 

Processed at cinelab and scanned on their Xena 5K HDR at 2K ProRess 444 Flat Pass

 

If you guys want to see something not in there just let me know I'll be happy to add some more stuff. I'm shooting another roll this week and will be posting the results again. 


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#11 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:23 AM

Oh my god. I would probably want to murder someone at FedEx if that ever happened to my film. That's infuriating!! Opening the can!??!? WTF? Why would they even do that in the first place?? That's like opening someone's private package even if it was separated. They had no need to open that up.

 

But anyways... hopefully it survived. I love CineLab for it's slightly more affordable prices compared to other labs but damn if they don't suuuuuck at communication. I've just grown to accept radio silence from them. But to be honest, that should be the case in this day and age. When I have them send my Super 8 to Gamma Ray Digital for scanning, Perry there is in constant contact with me about my film. Plus better scans in my opinion. CineLab definitely needs to improve on customer service and communication. Agreed.

 

As far as your film, I have never pushed anything that far but for one wedding I shot in this crazy low lit venue, I pushed 500T 1 stop to 1000ASA and it came out.... ok. Granted it's Super 8 so the grain was out of control a bit and very soft image even using my 814XL-S. You can see it starting around 2:30 in the video below. I'm very curious to see how your film turns out.

 

Yeah, I have no idea what the guy was thinking when he decided to open my film. But the film did survive!

 

I'm shooting another roll and will be sending to Metropolis Post in NYC to try them out especially since they are closer to me anyway. I think the results from Cinelab were great, however, I don't have anything to compare too since it's my first time sending out 16mm.

 

Thanks for sharing your footage loved the video. I definitely think you can get away with pushing 2 stops on 16mm. In my opinion, it looks good (When its exposed properly - I don't mind the added effects) Shooting at night is not ideal with my Canon Scoopic 16 but if you had a nice 16mm cam with a nice viewfinder and good fast glass you would be completely fine pushing two stops and shooting with practical street lights.


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#12 Ryan Fleet

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:09 AM

If anyone was interested in total cost I paid 

 

Film Stock 7219 100ft - $60.31 (Includes Tax plus shipping - bought directly from Kodak)

Film Push Processing and Data Scanning at 2k as well as shipping the film back to me - $139.99 (Form Cinelab Massachusetts *Factoring in the $100 Minimum charge for 16mm Data Scanning*)

 

All in Cost = $200.30

 

Obviously more cost effective to get two rolls processed and scanned.


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