Jump to content


Photo

What is the correct dolly for this shot?

dolly push in camera movement track

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Drew Angle

Drew Angle

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student

Posted 07 May 2018 - 01:35 PM

I will be shooting a music video in Los Angeles at the end of the month where the director wants to film a series of push ins on the artist sitting in different locations. These shots will be in a variety of terrains: indoors, outdoors and some in a forest location. Our budget is under $1500 for this specific tool. 

 

The desire is to be on wider lenses – likely a 35mm anamorphic. The shot should move straight in towards the subject. My current thought is to use a doorway dolly on track, but I want to give the director the greatest length of movement possible and I'm afraid I will quickly see the track in the shot if I pull back too far. 

 

I'm wondering if some type of arm / jib that extends forward from the dolly could buy us some distance?I'm really not too familiar using dollys and not sure what to be looking for. I also don't want to over complicate the setup. 

 

Thanks! 

Drew 


Edited by Drew Angle, 07 May 2018 - 01:36 PM.

  • 0

#2 tom lombard

tom lombard
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 140 posts
  • Other
  • nebraska

Posted 07 May 2018 - 03:22 PM

The "variety of terrains" makes me question using a dolly.  Drone or zoom maybe better options?


  • 0

#3 Michael LaVoie

Michael LaVoie
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 749 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 07 May 2018 - 04:25 PM

Seeing the track is one reason most of those shots are done from low angles and cropped in a 2:35 mode.  You could try using a Kira...http://motorizedprecision.com/

 

It's great for precise repeatable moves that you can time to music.


  • 0

#4 Drew Angle

Drew Angle

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student

Posted 07 May 2018 - 04:29 PM

Thanks,

 

They're scouting with a dolly shot in mind and anticipating laying track. The challenge IMO would come more from the distance of the location from our vehicles. We've also discussed finding exterior locations with this in mind. Just want to give a general impression that we'll be moving and working in a few locations. 

 

Drone is not the look we're going for, also not looking for the zoom aesthetic.

 

I will look further into that Kira. Seems like an interesting tool.


Edited by Drew Angle, 07 May 2018 - 04:30 PM.

  • 0

#5 Tristan Noelle

Tristan Noelle
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • North Hollywood, CA

Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:30 PM

If you have a dolly grip, or key grip who will do dolly, attached, Id consult them. A good DG can make repeatable movement speed fairly reliably. I imagine theyll be match cutting the pushins? I could be wrong but with $1500, motion control seems unlikely, including the equipment and techs, etc.

Id recommend a Fisher 11 with pnumatic wheels to go over whatever terrain you have. Its light enough a few guys can lift it over anything rough. Channel wheels with regular track for the push in. The standard package comes with a 3 offset to help avoid track.

If you have to start way back and need the jib to avoid track (port-a-jib or similar) you can put that on the 11, but itd be cheaper with a cheeseplate doorway and speed rail mitchell column. My fear with the jib is it moving slightly if your push in or landing is too sudden as they have a lot of momentum. But it should work with smooth moves. You can also help lock in movement with a little support rigging. Wouldnt be that expensive and is very portable.
  • 0

#6 Bruce Greene

Bruce Greene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:39 PM

You can use an offset arm to place the camera off the dolly center to buy yourself a little more room before you see the dolly track.  I think a jib will wiggle too much.

 

That said, a couple choices here if there is track in the beginning of the shot.

 

1. use the jib arm, but be prepared to apply stabilization in post production.  Frame a little bit wider to allow for the stabilization in post.

 

2. Don't use the jib and if you do see the track, perhaps an DFX person can paint it out in post.  Maybe it will cost about $500?  Maybe less.


  • 0

#7 Drew Angle

Drew Angle

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student

Posted 09 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

Thanks! This is really helpful.

The doorway dolly with the cheese plate seems perfect for our purposes.

As for the extension - at the the very least an offset arm would be great. I like the jib for the reach (looking at maybe 5-6) Also the porta-jib mentioned seems in our budget. I hear you on the stability issue though.

Im worried about stabilizing in post since well be on anamorphics and I dont want to loose to much of the frame edges since Im interested in the distortion/barreling and that aesthetic.

Tristan, when you mention stabilizing the jib - assuming we dont want to boom up or down and want to to stay locked in place what methods would you suggest for stabilizing this?

Ill bring up the the VFX for removing the track. Maybe get some quotes. Hopefully its that reasonable that would be great.
  • 0

#8 aapo lettinen

aapo lettinen
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1135 posts
  • Other
  • Finland

Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

sometimes the art department could hide the end of a dolly track with removable branches/leafs/grass etc if the set and camera move and continuity allows it...for a push in they would remove them from the track as soon as the camera is close enough they are not showing in the frame anymore. similar approach than instructing the extras on a group scene to move over the tracks at correct timing to hide the track and its gap when camera pulls back in very long continuous shot.

 

VFX or boom might be easier though or just tilting the image up when shooting or in edit when the track is showing at the start of the move


  • 0

#9 Tristan Noelle

Tristan Noelle
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • North Hollywood, CA

Posted 09 May 2018 - 06:06 PM

What comes to mind, and I havent done this myself, would be to grab the back end of the jib with a cardillini or similar and attach it to the dolly itself with an arm. Same with the front arm. Then it cant travel up and down or side to side as much.
  • 0

#10 Igor Trajkovski

Igor Trajkovski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 308 posts
  • Other
  • Macedonia

Posted 11 May 2018 - 05:09 AM

In the VFX breakdown video for David Fincher's "Mindhunter" series

i saw pretty lengthy dolly track removal :)
 

Here the video, it is the 1st shot.
Even when switching to the 2nd camera the track from the 1st is there.
Shot executed with two simultaneous cameras.
 

Mindhunter VFX Breakdown - Artemple

 

PS:   Smoke and mirrors... :)

PPS: All of it.


  • 0

#11 Bruce Greene

Bruce Greene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:33 AM

About VFX removal:  

 

Since this is just one shot, it's easy to scour the world for a VFX person and upload the shot to them over the internet.  I have been shocked to find out how little is charged for VFX work in some countries.  And this track removal doesn't seem like it will require the most sophisticated VFX work.

 

Sorry to the American VFX artists reading this, but it seems to be the way the VFX industry is going these days...

 

My gut impulse is that the less detail on the floor around the track, the easier it will be to paint out the track.


  • 0

#12 Igor Trajkovski

Igor Trajkovski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 308 posts
  • Other
  • Macedonia

Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:08 PM

It might be also helpful to take a photo(s) from the furthest position
without the tracks, more or less the FOV intended in the dolly shot

for reference and cloning purpose.

Even other images - different angles of the area where the track will be.


  • 0



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: dolly, push in, camera movement, track

Paralinx LLC

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Glidecam

The Slider

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

CineLab

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

CineTape

The Slider

CineLab