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#1 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 07:02 PM

Hi! which digital video camera has night vision + 4K?

 

Sbdy knows how really works the night vision cameras? Any experience to share? 


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#2 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:04 PM

Google night vision for some info on how it works.

 

Either you use image enhancing technology that amplifies the available light, or you use a broader spectrum such as IR.

 

In theory most video cameras can be turned into night vision cameras by simply removing the IR filter in front of the sensor, and using IR illumination. This RED article details some of the issues, and how REDs can be converted to Infrared:

http://www.red.com/l...infrared-cinema

 

Otherwise you can use image intensifiers which can adapt to common DSLRs or camcorders, such as these:

http://www.nightvisi...tensifiers.html

 

Many surveillance cameras have night vision capability, but aren't well suited for cinematography.

 

The best stuff of course is military.


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#3 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 08:36 PM

Google night vision for some info on how it works.

 

Either you use image enhancing technology that amplifies the available light, or you use a broader spectrum such as IR.

 

In theory most video cameras can be turned into night vision cameras by simply removing the IR filter in front of the sensor, and using IR illumination. This RED article details some of the issues, and how REDs can be converted to Infrared:

http://www.red.com/l...infrared-cinema

 

Otherwise you can use image intensifiers which can adapt to common DSLRs or camcorders, such as these:

http://www.nightvisi...tensifiers.html

 

Many surveillance cameras have night vision capability, but aren't well suited for cinematography.

 

The best stuff of course is military.

great info! we are looking for the green image. Not as the b&w image as sicario did. We are shooting the movie with f55, and we wnt to use real avn or night vision camera, but with that green colour, so that adaptor looks good. Sby also told me that some sony cameras do that. Such as the Sony PXW-70 ... do you know if that camera do that? Cause Ive looking in b&h but I can't that info.. what do you think?


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#4 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:01 PM

If you google that Sony model, the specs tell you it uses IR for its NightShot mode, by bypassing the IR filter and using IR illumination. 

 

You want image intensifiers to get that green image.


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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:06 AM

You could also probably take the black and white images and tint them green.....


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#6 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:53 AM

You could also probably take the black and white images and tint them green.....

 

Yes, may be, but I prefer to do it when shooting directly on set ...


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#7 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:58 AM

If you google that Sony model, the specs tell you it uses IR for its NightShot mode, by bypassing the IR filter and using IR illumination. 

 

You want image intensifiers to get that green image.

I've been googling for some info, yes... and what I found is that if the night is too dark, I'll probably don't get any imagen.. so I have to light a little but not too much ... and also using sth like a small lite panel or a small tiny led in top of the camera to get the bright on the  eyes of the actors... Bt I don;t really know if this camera shoots night vision in 4K, or If I'll loose some quality while shooting with this sony... 

Cause the other thing is to shoot with mi sony F55, and the grading it in C correction, but I think I prefer to shoot it real ... 


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#8 Robert Hart

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 12:55 PM

If you intend to shoot the display screen of a night-vision tube intensifier, there are difficulties unless you have a specific kit to mount that device onto a camera. I understand, maybe wrongly that the display resolution of a 2/3" intensifier in the Gen 3 or Gen 4 class is still only about 72 line pairs per mm at best. That is around about the sharpness of standard definition television.

By the time you frame out the circular display edge from your rectangular camera image, the resolution is reduced by about a third.

For dramatic purposes, the circular image might be retained as a porthole in the rectangular camera image. I understand that for most motion picture dramas, a clean image is shot with a conventional camera, colour-desaturated, tinted green and the signature artifacts of the intensifier tube display added in post-production.

Those artifacts are in case of over-bright image are hex outlines across the image replicating the stacked coherent fibre bundles of the image-inverting device within the intensifier tube or a sparking noise in the vision which in night-vision speak is defined as scintillation. Overbright areas within the intensified image are sometimes replicated by letting the originating camera image blow out the highlights.

This image was shot a Gen 2 intensifier of 60 line pairs resolution. For much of the tine there was sufficient lighting for a modern high gain camera to aquire a usable image and I had to close the aperture on the taking lens to outdoors daylight levels tgo avoid blowing the tube image out. Because of adequate light levels, there is no gain noise or scintillation in the intensifier display. You will observe I chose a compromise between portholing the display image entirely or cropping out the circle altogether.



In this image with the same Gen 2 intensifier, I was experimenting with a Metabones speedbooster for BMPCC in the optical path between the intensifier tube and the taking lens which brings the "apparent" image recovery up into the Gen 3 class. Of course a Gen 3 would perform even better with the same optical setup.

You will observe that the sharpness in the image drops off in the much lower lighting conditions and the scintillation artifact challenges the camera's compression scheme.



My personal preference would be to go with conventional camerawork and add the effects in post.


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#9 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

If you intend to shoot the display screen of a night-vision tube intensifier, there are difficulties unless you have a specific kit to mount that device onto a camera. I understand, maybe wrongly that the display resolution of a 2/3" intensifier in the Gen 3 or Gen 4 class is still only about 72 line pairs per mm at best. That is around about the sharpness of standard definition television.

By the time you frame out the circular display edge from your rectangular camera image, the resolution is reduced by about a third.

For dramatic purposes, the circular image might be retained as a porthole in the rectangular camera image. I understand that for most motion picture dramas, a clean image is shot with a conventional camera, colour-desaturated, tinted green and the signature artifacts of the intensifier tube display added in post-production.

Those artifacts are in case of over-bright image are hex outlines across the image replicating the stacked coherent fibre bundles of the image-inverting device within the intensifier tube or a sparking noise in the vision which in night-vision speak is defined as scintillation. Overbright areas within the intensified image are sometimes replicated by letting the originating camera image blow out the highlights.

This image was shot a Gen 2 intensifier of 60 line pairs resolution. For much of the tine there was sufficient lighting for a modern high gain camera to aquire a usable image and I had to close the aperture on the taking lens to outdoors daylight levels tgo avoid blowing the tube image out. Because of adequate light levels, there is no gain noise or scintillation in the intensifier display. You will observe I chose a compromise between portholing the display image entirely or cropping out the circle altogether.



In this image with the same Gen 2 intensifier, I was experimenting with a Metabones speedbooster for BMPCC in the optical path between the intensifier tube and the taking lens which brings the "apparent" image recovery up into the Gen 3 class. Of course a Gen 3 would perform even better with the same optical setup.

You will observe that the sharpness in the image drops off in the much lower lighting conditions and the scintillation artifact challenges the camera's compression scheme.



My personal preference would be to go with conventional camerawork and add the effects in post.

Good answer !! thanks! I think I'll probably shoot with the Sony F55 4k Raw, with a lite panel on top, ... and make some test's. Then I will add green, grain, contrast, etx, in color correction !


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#10 Robert Hart

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 11:43 PM

I forgot to mention, what the human eye sees via a night vision intensifier is of apparent better crispness than what a camera sees. The scintillation artefact ( video noise of an intensifier ) seems more sparkly and bright than what the camera sees.

 

Using an intensifier to a camera may depending upon the type and camera adaptor provided, may require two focusing operations, one for the taking lens, the other for the camera's own lens which has become a relay lens. Managing two focus operations can be a real pain and consume time.

The gold standard for mounting intensifiers to cameras I understand is the Astroscope family of kits by Electrophysics Corp. Their best kits can only be accessed and used within the US as there are export restrictions on certain grades of intensifier tubes for national security reasons. The company builds kits for the widest range of cameras and may by now have a kit for Sony E-Mount as well as the more well known camera types.

Here is a link to information about one kit which may be suitable for the Sony F55 if there is a Canon EF-Mount ( EOS-Mount ) available for it. My personal preference remains with shooting a clean image and adding the artifacts and softening the image if need be in post.

www.militaryandlaw.com.au/shop/item/9350-digital-35mm-still-cameras

You need to scroll to the bottom of the page and download the .pdf file from a link provided.

You may need to experiment with best time of day to shoot your night vision effects shots. With modern intensifiers, the sky can be seen. So you might need to shoot day-for-night because at night, your camera at its highest gain, may not see the sky unless you are in an environment where there is strong light spill into the sky from a nearby city.

 


Edited by Robert Hart, 11 June 2018 - 11:49 PM.

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#11 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:51 AM

As an aside, we faked night vision on a 35mm short film by shooting at dusk  with a video camera and feeding that into a Steadicam III CRT monitor (they are green) and shooting that with the film camera.


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#12 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:47 PM

As an aside, we faked night vision on a 35mm short film by shooting at dusk  with a video camera and feeding that into a Steadicam III CRT monitor (they are green) and shooting that with the film camera.

ok.. but i need to shoot everything at nigh... its better to go for higher iso? to put a light like a lite panel? to use a green filter in front of the lens? what do you recommend?


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