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#1 Sol Train Saihati

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 06:43 PM

Hello All!

I'm lighting a pretty small apartment next week, however the ceilings are very high and we are considering rigging as much as we can via a couple of polecats/mathpoles.

I've never used this system for this type of rigging and am a bit concerned about the weight limits that it can take, without supplementary support from a couple of stands. Extended about ten feet, how much do you reckon they could safely hold? A 4 x 4' kino bank? A couple of Arri 650's with sofboxes? A couple of dedopars with chimera lanterns?

Are there any other low cost alternatives for ceiling rigging (That dont involve drilling/bolting/screwing things into walls) that I should take into consideration?

Edited by djdumpy, 11 July 2005 - 06:44 PM.

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#2 Bob Hayes

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:06 PM

I rarely use pole cats. I find they are too time-consuming to set-up and they never seemed very safe. In some very strong locations I?ve used large spreaders with 2 x 4 boards for support. Instead I will usually get a high roller and send a beam out into the set before I do the spreading technique. What ever you do keep the weight very light.
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#3 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:28 PM

... Instead I will usually get a high roller and send a beam out into the set before I do the spreading technique.  What ever you do keep the weight very light.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Bob: Is this the sort of item you're referring to as a "high roller"?:
Posted Image

... from Matthews website:
http://www.msegrip.c...oducts_ID=25065

If so, what item is used as the "beam" you mention above? Something like this?:
Posted Image

http://www.msegrip.c...oducts_ID=24093

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

- Peter DeCrescenzo
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#4 Luke Prendergast

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 07:47 PM

Check out Kevin Zanit's spreaders in the In Production thread for These Days
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#5 Bob Hayes

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 10:21 PM

Peter:

Yes that is what I call a high roller. I like the small boom poles you pictured. They work great for one small light or sneaking in a back light. Usually my grips use speed rail or even part of a 12x frame. Some grips use a 2 x 4 and sometimes use a special 2 x 4 holder with a baby pin attached. You put ¾ of the beam into the set and the other becomes a counter balance. I like to put a sandbag as a counter balance so it is easy to adjust the beam and raise or lower it. Some grips tie off the counter balance end to one of the legs of the stand. Keep an eye on the ceiling as you don?t want to damage your set. Also, you have to be careful to lock down the raisers so it doesn?t fall. Also watch out for twisting of the speed rail. When ever you hand lights try to avoid having an actor stand right under the light or beam. It?s sort of a loaded gun.
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#6 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:20 AM

Hi,

Microphone stands work well for flags, although they need to be well-sandbagged. They're available and cheap.

Phil
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#7 Jon Rosenbloom

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:00 PM

Pole-cats are ok for what you're planning, just don't go nuts w/ the weight. When you're actually rigging, it will be a lot easier to tell when you've reached it's limit.

One thing people always do wrong w/ pole-cats is that they try to keep the walls from getting marked up by the suction cups. The suction cups are what make the rig work! If you don't want the rings on the wall, either put a mousepad between the wall and the suction cup, or, don't use a pole-cat! Whatever you do, don't put showcard, paper tape, or anything slippery on the suction cups in an effort to keep the walls clean.

As for the boom rig of a high-boy: You can do that too, but it's not really any faster or safer. It takes up a lot of space on a tight set, you need 3 guys to move it, lots of sandbags, rope, you have to figure out of where to put the base, and you have to get everyone to move out of the way when you want to move it. Also, they can tip over.

As for Kevin's spreader rig: I meant to chastise him for not have 16" feet (made of 2"x4") on the ends of the spreader. I wrote a detailed post about spreaders in the last month or two. Click on my name, and the look through my posts to find it.

J
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#8 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 01:33 PM

I am a DP, not a grip - I didn't rig it.

The rig held, did what we needed, and as far as I am concerned was safe.

I would be glad to foward your concerns on down to the crew.

Kevin Zanit

Edited by Kevin_Zanit, 12 July 2005 - 01:38 PM.

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#9 oscar jimenez

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 02:03 PM

I use Math Poles extensively but with small units, No more than 2 kno 4 banks, usual load may be:
1k fresnel, 2k fresnel ( desisti or arricompact or arrilite par 2k ) small 300/650 w,
or some pepper units, for HMI 575, 1.2 no more!!!. Usually if Im at a house (location) I try to use some towell paper at the ends for not leaving marks on walls paint, and it is better if it is set on position by 2 people, so they both can strecht it out and lock it properly. The more the pole is spread, less resistance it will have, since it is light aluminum. In the other side, I do not liker "roller" raisers, rather stick with Mumbo Combo raisers, funny, I dont find "rollers" quite safe after seing some catastrophic lose of balance with medium size units on top.
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#10 Jon Rosenbloom

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 02:16 PM

I am a DP, not a grip - I didn't rig it.

The rig held, did what we needed, and as far as I am concerned was safe.

I would be glad to foward your concerns on down to the crew.

Kevin Zanit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I meant a light chastisement :) . Anyway, your guys will risk less damage if they use the feet.

Good Luck!

J-Ro
(IATSE, Local 52)
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#11 Kevin Zanit

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 02:20 PM

I honestly will foward it down to them, the feet sound like a good idea to me!


Kevin Zanit
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#12 Bob Hayes

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:27 PM

What do you mean by feet?

That spreader looks pretty over loaded. Also we usually use the 2 x 4 so it sits on edge not flat. Less flex. Your guys probably kept it flat to keep it out of the shot.
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#13 Rik Andino

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:40 PM

Are there any other low cost alternatives for ceiling rigging
(That dont involve drilling/bolting/screwing things into walls)
that I should take into consideration?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well wall spreaders are the best and safest bet...
BUT you'll have to drill holes into the wall.

Polecats are good but you can't overload them like you're talking about...
They're can be pretty flimsy
& I wouldn't recommend someone keeping them up for over a day...
So you'd should rig them up again everyday (which makes them cumbersome).

You might also be able to build a grid...BUT that also requires drilling...

Personally I just recommend you drill into the walls
It's better than killing someone with a flimsy rig.
You can always patch up the holes later.
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#14 Jon Rosenbloom

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:45 AM

What do you mean by feet? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I quote my own post:
"You will need to cut a 16" piece of 2x4 to attach as a "foot" to each end of the spreader. When it's up in the air, the length of the feet will be horizontal. The reason to put the feet on is that vertical studs inside a wall are generally 16" apart, so your 16" "foot" gives you a reasonable chance of applying the force of the spreader to something solid. A bit of rubber mat on the outside of the feet always helps."

95% of the time, you do not need to screw the spreader into the wall.
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#15 Michael Morlan

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:23 PM

I have a set of four Bogen Autopoles that I use on occasion in addition to my 2x4 spreaders. They're great for tucking a light into a corner by spreading them vertically between ceiling and floor.

A horizontal span can SAG AND FALL! Consider placing loads near the ends rather than toward the center. Better, add two vertical autopoles at the ends to support the horizontal span (although this may negate the value of spreading something above the frame.) Connect each vertical pole to the horizontal with two super mafer clamps and a swivel snap-in.

Any time a light is suspended over people, add a safety wire between light and pole.

Span a horizontal pole only between wall studs. Use a stud finder and bit of light-stick tape to mark the locations of the studs.

Wipe off the rubber ends before using to reduce staining surfaces. Consider a buffer of clean cloth or rubber (or the afformentioned mouse pad) to protect surfaces.

The 16" end pad for wall spreaders is a great and common-sense idea. Can't imagine why I didn't think of it. :) Better to make it 24" for those cheap tract homes with 24" centers on their studs.

Edited by mmorlan62, 13 July 2005 - 05:25 PM.

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