Jump to content


Photo

Flashback sequence and dream sequence as different effect

flashback dream sequence effe

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 raphaelle gosse

raphaelle gosse

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris

Posted 17 June 2018 - 02:22 PM

Hello everyone 

 

I am shooting an indie feature soon , and i will have to film a dream sequence and a flashback, and i want the 2 scenes to look very different from each other.

I am shooting with Alexa Mini and Cooke S4.

It's a low budget so i won't be able to rent any other types of  lens such as Super Baltar (  we cant find them in France anyway).

For the dream sequence, I'm thinking to smear vaseline on a piece of glass in front of the lens.

As for the flashback ,  I 've hit a wall. I know the editing has a lot to do with it , but visually it has to convey the past. I don't want the sepia look, nor do i want to desaturate it in post.

Any ideas on what i could experiment with ? or any flashback scenes that you have seen that look great? 

Thank you so much again for your help! 

Cheers

Raphaelle from Paris

 


  • 0

#2 Daniel Klockenkemper

Daniel Klockenkemper
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 June 2018 - 04:26 PM

Hello Raphaelle, 
 
There's no right or wrong way to film a flashback or a dream; the way that is most appropriate depends entirely on the story.  From whose point of view is the flashback seen?  How would that memory look to that person?  How does that compare or contrast to the present?
 
I think you are on a good track to explore filtration.  Adding diffusion with a pro-mist or net filter could suggest a memory; I've used a very heavy black mist filter to that effect in the past.  (Black filtration tends to retain more contrast than white or lighter versions of mist or net filters.)  Or one could go in a very different direction, with something like the Bethke Effect filters or Spot Diopters from Vantage to really strongly alter the image.  
 
Using a different lighting style could be another approach - stronger backlight with less fill, for instance.  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind used colored lighting, and at other times a narrow spotlight on the characters (allowing the sides of the frame to fall off into darkness) for flashbacks and memories.  
 
Regarding vaseline on a clear filter, I would highly suggest testing in advance with a stills camera to get an idea of how much is required (or how little - it is easy to overdo in my experience).  You may also consider bringing several clear filters so that the effect can be re-done quickly for a different camera angle, rather than waiting for a filter to be cleaned.  Having a plastic shop cut optical-grade acrylic sheets to fit your matte box would be an inexpensive way to do this.
 
Congratulations and best of luck filming your feature!
 
Daniel

  • 1

#3 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1424 posts
  • Director
  • Og from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 17 June 2018 - 05:12 PM

I am shooting with Alexa Mini and Cooke S4.

It's a low budget

 

... What lol?

 

Anyway, try a Fogal flesh colored stocking behind the lens. I like the throwback look of it.


  • 0

#4 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7404 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 17 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

Why even do filters-- what if you played with multiple layers of reflection of the character? There are SOOO many way to do it; pick what YOU think works, and go with it.


  • 0

#5 Daniel Klockenkemper

Daniel Klockenkemper
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 17 June 2018 - 08:35 PM

Why even do filters-- what if you played with multiple layers of reflection of the character? There are SOOO many way to do it; pick what YOU think works, and go with it.

 

Of course there are a lot of ways to do it.  Filtration is an option that is inexpensive, widely available, and can work in almost any setting.  How would you use reflections if the script has the scene outdoors in an open field?  Without any details about the story, our suggestions are necessarily broad. 
 
Variation in camera movement is yet another option - if the present is handheld, the flashback could be on dolly or steadicam.  I worked on (but did not shoot myself) a film earlier this year that used slow, deliberate pans and zooms to transition from reality to fantasy; Cría Cuervos, directed by Carlos Saura, was a reference for the technique.  
 
The story should be the ultimate guide for the look.  Perhaps ask the director what kind of feeling they want for the flashbacks, and use that as a starting point for making the look tangible. 

  • 0

#6 Carl Looper

Carl Looper
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1431 posts
  • Digital Image Technician
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 17 June 2018 - 08:43 PM

A flashback need not be from the point of view of anyone. It's not as if the past can only exist as someone's personal recollection of it. If we are free (as we are) to move the camera around in space, and adopt points of view that do not belong to anyone in the story, we're also free to move around in time in the same way. To see more than what the characters can see. Or see less. In both space and time. The film itself becomes it's own character with it's own reasons for being at a particular place and time.

 

I recall a great film (but can't recall the name or the director) in which two lovers agree to meet at some cafe on a given date. When the day arrives, we're there at the cafe, the photography establishing the scene. We watch people walking by. Nothing in particular is happening. Some birds on a telegraph pole. People arriving home from work returning to their apartments. But the lovers never arrive. The film ends on this note.

 

C


  • 0

#7 raphaelle gosse

raphaelle gosse

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris

Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:56 AM

Macks Fiiod we re shooting with an Alexa because the producer could get one for free...;-)

 

Anyway thanks a lot everyone , the flashback scene is taking place in a parc so i think i'll go with a heavy filtration , and the use of some flare.

Have a great day ! 


  • 0

#8 Robin R Probyn

Robin R Probyn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2276 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Tokyo

Posted 18 June 2018 - 06:35 AM

The Hand Maidens Tale .. dealt with flash backs in an interesting way.. somewhere on the inter web there is an interview with the DP or at least the pilot DP.. about the approach and raison d'être.. 


  • 0

#9 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7404 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:17 AM

 

 

Of course there are a lot of ways to do it.  Filtration is an option that is inexpensive, widely available, and can work in almost any setting.  How would you use reflections if the script has the scene outdoors in an open field?  Without any details about the story, our suggestions are necessarily broad. 
 

 

 If it is a flash-back dream sequence, open field or not, you can introduce any type of visual grammar you like. In a field instance, perhaps via puddles if you want to ground it in realism, though if you don't you can just go for it. Not that this is right for this film-- the point is that I personally think it's often better to at least attempt to explore new and interesting ways of doing things than resorting back to; well dreams and memory are amorphous, time to pull out that double net and star filter!

I really do like the camera movement/zoom idea as well, personally-- or you can even do it with framing, short sighting or "too much" head-room or keeping the character center punched or even mis-matching focal lengths-- the one whose flashback it is is always on a long lens, while everything else is on a wide, for example. 


  • 0

#10 Doug Palmer

Doug Palmer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 19 June 2018 - 04:03 AM

 

I really do like the camera movement/zoom idea as well, personally-- or you can even do it with framing, short sighting or "too much" head-room or keeping the character center punched or even mis-matching focal lengths-- the one whose flashback it is is always on a long lens, while everything else is on a wide, for example. 

I like this idea.  A long lens gives a kind of abstract feel rather like a 2-dimensional painting or drawing.


  • 0

#11 Giacomo Girolamo

Giacomo Girolamo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Venezia

Posted 19 June 2018 - 11:29 AM

Hello everyone 

 

I am shooting an indie feature soon , and i will have to film a dream sequence and a flashback, and i want the 2 scenes to look very different from each other.

I am shooting with Alexa Mini and Cooke S4.

It's a low budget so i won't be able to rent any other types of  lens such as Super Baltar (  we cant find them in France anyway).

For the dream sequence, I'm thinking to smear vaseline on a piece of glass in front of the lens.

As for the flashback ,  I 've hit a wall. I know the editing has a lot to do with it , but visually it has to convey the past. I don't want the sepia look, nor do i want to desaturate it in post.

Any ideas on what i could experiment with ? or any flashback scenes that you have seen that look great? 

Thank you so much again for your help! 

Cheers

Raphaelle from Paris

 

 

You could use a difference in order of the physical world. I mean, you could filming the flashback a little above the eye level, you could play with the background, making it with less details that the rest of the film. You also can play in post with the sound, with a little of reverb or a different EQ.

 

When people remember something, they usually focus the memory on the details they are trying to relive back. That's why I talked about about a simple background, maybe a close up of the mouth when the talent say the most important word or phrase in the shot.

 

 

Just a bunch of ideas, take what you like (if you like someone) and leave the rest..

 

 

Good luck with the film!


  • 0

#12 Doug Palmer

Doug Palmer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:35 AM

What about using stills...  Maybe not, but when I think of memories the image comes before movement.


  • 1

#13 Giacomo Girolamo

Giacomo Girolamo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Venezia

Posted 26 June 2018 - 11:22 AM

Hope is not to late...

 

You can also try to rent a Helios 85mm f2 which has an interesting effect with the bokeh, in a spherical way.

 

Hacking_Photography_Helios_44-2_Lens-008

 

dscf2072.jpg?w=880&h=586

 

 

51GWaI6wKwL.jpg

 

 

 

7b83ddc16904c37ee9ade2b83e0816ba.jpg


  • 0

#14 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7404 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 30 June 2018 - 02:31 PM

Isn't that basically the same as the Lomo Petzvel-- which would also be an interesting choice. You could maybe do a lens-baby/tiltshift lens to play with focal planes as well.


  • 1


Metropolis Post

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Abel Cine

CineLab

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

CineTape

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

CineLab

Paralinx LLC