Jump to content


Photo

4K out of an F35?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1424 posts
  • Director
  • Og from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:31 PM

I've come to understand the Sony F35 is a 1080p camera, however was recently reading it had a 5K sensor??

After reading after that reading, it had something to do with the theory of doubling the photosites to ensure optimal quality, but is there any way to rig it so it records at a higher resolution?

 

I saw some guy on eBay saying he was recording at 4K with no quality loss, but could this be the chroma subsampling taking a hit for luma resolution?

 

Thank you!


Edited by Macks Fiiod, 04 July 2018 - 07:37 PM.

  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20102 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:03 PM

Its not a Bayer CFA sensor, it has RGB stripes, an equal number of total photosites for each color unlike with a Bayer. So to create 1920 x 1080 RGB, it has about 2MP per color so 6MP total. But because its not a mosaic color array pattern, you cant intelligently reconstruct a full color image at a higher resolution than 1920 x 1080 per color. Plus there is some greater tendency towards moire with this striped system.

But since a Bayer CFA only allots 25% of the photosites for red and blue information, Id suspect one could uprez the F35 signal fairly well at least in terms of detail in the red and blue channels.
  • 0

#3 Macks Fiiod

Macks Fiiod
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1424 posts
  • Director
  • Og from DC, Now in NJ

Posted 06 July 2018 - 07:46 PM

Its not a Bayer CFA sensor, it has RGB stripes, an equal number of total photosites for each color unlike with a Bayer. So to create 1920 x 1080 RGB, it has about 2MP per color so 6MP total. But because its not a mosaic color array pattern, you cant intelligently reconstruct a full color image at a higher resolution than 1920 x 1080 per color. Plus there is some greater tendency towards moire with this striped system.

Just to make clear, are you saying that the F35 has moire issues? Or only if I try upscaling a sensor of its nature?


  • 0

#4 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 12229 posts
  • Other

Posted 06 July 2018 - 08:30 PM

People have said it has moire issues. I think the reality may be that it has moire issues that are easier to see because they tend to form unbroken lines as opposed to Bayer moire which is, in theory, just as present but harder to see.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it...


  • 0

#5 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20102 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:36 PM

I shot on the Panavision Genesis (more or less the same camera as the F35, same sensor) for over three years on a series and some pilots and it had moire issues — you had to test wardrobe to avoid it. I don’t know if it was more due to the striped sensor design or a weak OLPF in the pursuit of better sharpness. Shooting for a shallow depth of field helped.
  • 0

#6 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1172 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:21 PM

Interesting. I wonder if the Genesis and F35 had different OLPFs? I shot a feature and a half dozen other projects on the Sony version of the camera and never encountered any moire.


  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 20102 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:51 PM

Sure, it’s possible, if not probable, that Sony refined the OLPF after the two years or so that the Genesis had the market to themselves. But I think the physical separation between a color stripe and the next time it appears in a row would make color moire almost inevitable. I only did a few things on the F35 compared to the hundreds of hours I did on the Genesis but I don’t recall much difference in the image.
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Willys Widgets

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

The Slider

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

CineTape

The Slider

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Broadcast Solutions Inc

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Aerial Filmworks