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Best black and white negative stock for telecine?


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#1 Mike Lary

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 03:02 AM

Hi all,

What black and white neg stocks has anyone used and liked that have fine grain and telecine well? Does anyone have a screen cap of BW neg that has been transferred?

I'm looking for a stock that has fine grain, is at least 200 ASA, and transfers clean enough to handle some gentle nudging in post. The project is destined for DV (no prints whatsoever). I ran some tests recently on 7222, but the lab botched the transfer and robbed me of a much needed reference. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
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#2 Sam Wells

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:03 AM

m looking for a stock that has fine grain, is at least 200 ASA, and transfers clean enough to handle some gentle nudging in post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Literally that would be 7217 and you take the color out.

If you like this look; it's different than shooting B&W.

Grain wise, Plus-X but not quite 200 - push it, it'll be close to 100. But push = build up grain.

Plus-X reversal will look great in telecine but it's 2 stops away from where you want to be.

-Sam
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:48 AM

Yes, Sam's right. There are only two b&w neg stocks, Plus-X and Double-X. Double-X is the speed you want but is definitely grainy, whereas Plus-X is finer-grained but slower.

If you want 200 ASA but fine-grain, you have to shoot color neg like 7217 and pull the color out in the transfer or in post later.

B&W reversal stocks are finer-grained (but contrastier), although Tri-X, which has the speed you want, is still grainier than 7217 with the color pulled. But if you could live with 100 ASA, then Plus-X Reversal may be a good choice.

Exposure latitude is smaller with reversal so you have to be more accurate when exposing.
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#4 Mike Lary

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 11:25 AM

Thanks, Sam and David. Pulling the color out in post makes perfect sense, and the control it affords in the color-to-bw conversion is appealing. I much prefer that process in still photography over shooting straight black and white. Do you have a preferred post tool for that process? I'm using the AE Pro Bundle right now.

I like the quality of Plus-X telecined, but some of the lighting setups will be complicated so I'd like to have a bit of a safety net in regards to exposure latitude.

Mike
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 11:35 AM

Removing the color is very simple in any basic color-corrector (Pogle, DaVinci) attached to a telecine. However, you may have more control over the shot contrast -- especially outdoors -- if you do a scene-to-scene color-correction in color and then pull the color out after correcting the shot, rather than do a straight transfer with the color removed as the first step.

So you might want to spend the money on a supervised telecine transfer session to create the best b&w image possible from the color negative.

If not you may want to get the original transfer in color and do a tape-to-tape color-correction session in a DaVinci suite after editing to create a b&w version.
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#6 Mike Lary

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:47 PM

David. Thanks for your detailed and insightful response. If I can afford a supervised transfer, I'll probably go that route. The more I read about telecine, the more I want to go behind the curtain and see firsthand how it all works.
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#7 Chris Burke

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 07:04 PM

David. Thanks for your detailed and insightful response. If I can afford a supervised transfer, I'll probably go that route. The more I read about telecine, the more I want to go behind the curtain and see firsthand how it all works.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



what about using 7231 and push it a stop? If you can live with 100asa, then by all means do this. There will be grain, but not that bad. But you could also get a larger light package, the 31 has a descent amount of latitude. In any case, if you do shoot color and pull the color out or if you shoot black and white neg, you will get two different, yet appealing looks. When B&W is needed, I like the real stuff.


chris
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#8 Mike Lary

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 12:02 AM

Hi Chris. Do you have any screen captures of 7231 pushed? I'm really looking for fine grain on this project, so 'not that bad' (being a subject assessment) makes me a little wary; I'd at least like a frame of reference before shelling out the extra $$ for push processing and procuring additional lights. Thanks for your response.
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#9 Chris Burke

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 08:00 AM

Hi Chris. Do you have any screen captures of 7231 pushed? I'm really looking for fine grain on this project, so 'not that bad' (being a subject assessment) makes me a little wary; I'd at least like a frame of reference before shelling out the extra $$ for push processing and procuring additional lights. Thanks for your response.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Sorry I do not have any screen grabs at the moment. By what you say that you are looking for, it sounds like you should shoot 7217 and desaturate in post. That will give you fine grain and a great look. Good luck.


chris
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