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Haze in the woods


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#1 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:13 AM

Hi, which is the best way to have a dense haze in the woods and not seeing the haze moving? So as to see the light of the flashligths?  


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:01 AM

Haze moves with the wind no matter what, so first thing is to hope for less wind that day.  The other thing is to surround the space with haze so that even when it moves, there is always haze.  Typically you'd use a "tube of death" rig -- long plastic visqueen tubes running from smoke machines with small holes cut into the tube to leak smoke out over the length of the tube.  You'd run these tubes through the woods behind bushes, ideally so the smoke drifted into the shot.

 

This video has a demo of the rig, though they have it a bit close to the action so the smoke is too sourcey.


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#3 timHealy

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:39 PM

For really kick ass smoke, somewhere in LA is a smoke machine attached to or built into a truck mounted jet engine turbine. I’ve only seen it once while working on war of the worlds. That thing smoked up whole city blocks with no problem.
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#4 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:12 AM

Haze moves with the wind no matter what, so first thing is to hope for less wind that day.  The other thing is to surround the space with haze so that even when it moves, there is always haze.  Typically you'd use a "tube of death" rig -- long plastic visqueen tubes running from smoke machines with small holes cut into the tube to leak smoke out over the length of the tube.  You'd run these tubes through the woods behind bushes, ideally so the smoke drifted into the shot.

 

This video has a demo of the rig, though they have it a bit close to the action so the smoke is too sourcey.

Jaja... excelent video! Yes.. We are trying sth similar, but is not working really cause we are having some wind... And I hate! when smoke moves... 


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#5 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:24 AM

For really kick ass smoke, somewhere in LA is a smoke machine attached to or built into a truck mounted jet engine turbine. I’ve only seen it once while working on war of the worlds. That thing smoked up whole city blocks with no problem.

Cool, but our problem ithat we need the smoke to stay without moving.. 


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#6 aapo lettinen

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:07 AM

Cool, but our problem ithat we need the smoke to stay without moving.. 

 

you need to see the texture of the smoke staying stationary when there is wind? there is no much you can do other than doing the smoke with vfx. if shooting the whole scene in studio you could have zero wind... another possibility would be to make a "outdoor studio" by surrounding the outdoor woods set with black scrim or similar fabric which would kill the wind close to the ground so that you could have couple of meters of no-wind zone above the ground. very time consuming though  :blink:

 

if you would only need continuous haze you can smooth out the haze texture by adjusting the smoke tube airflow/smoke ratio and hole size + hole spacing


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#7 aapo lettinen

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:17 AM

if you would only need continuous haze you can smooth out the haze texture by adjusting the smoke tube airflow/smoke ratio and hole size + hole spacing

...so that if there is wind the haze is continuously moving out of the shot and is replaced with new haze and the haze texture is minimised so that even if the haze is moving no one notices it because it is so evenly dispersed in the air. 

You need to experiment beforehand with the haze tube to find the right settings for the shot. good starting point would be lots of excess air in the tube (powerful blower compared to the smoke output) and lots of small holes in the tube. and some distance between the tube and the set. depending on the conditions you may need to run another tubes parallel to the first one but on different heights (the haze layer will stay closer to the tube's height if you are using smaller holes, but smaller holes help make the haze more even )


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#8 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:06 AM

Another factor to consider, other than wind, is that if the temperature is high during the day, when the sun goes down the ground begins to cool, and the release of heat back into the air will create updrafts that will clear your haze very quickly.


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#9 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:10 PM

Another factor to consider, other than wind, is that if the temperature is high during the day, when the sun goes down the ground begins to cool, and the release of heat back into the air will create updrafts that will clear your haze very quickly.

So, to shoot in a cold place or hot place changes the haze? Cause Im shooting in a hot and humid jungle (ground level cero).. But we are doing tests in the woods, ground level 1000mts above the sea (cause the jungle location is really far from the production company).. Do yo think this chages sth in the  moving or not of the haze?


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#10 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:58 PM

A lot will depend on how hot the ground gets during the day, and how much the temperature drops once it gets dark. If there is a big difference in temperature, you'll definitely get updrafts of air as the ground cools. Cooler temps, and humidity seem to help the haze hang in the air.


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#11 Matias Nicolas

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:36 AM

Haze moves with the wind no matter what, so first thing is to hope for less wind that day.  The other thing is to surround the space with haze so that even when it moves, there is always haze.  Typically you'd use a "tube of death" rig -- long plastic visqueen tubes running from smoke machines with small holes cut into the tube to leak smoke out over the length of the tube.  You'd run these tubes through the woods behind bushes, ideally so the smoke drifted into the shot.

 

This video has a demo of the rig, though they have it a bit close to the action so the smoke is too sourcey.

And, a

 

A lot will depend on how hot the ground gets during the day, and how much the temperature drops once it gets dark. If there is a big difference in temperature, you'll definitely get updrafts of air as the ground cools. Cooler temps, and humidity seem to help the haze hang in the air.

And which is the best way for you to illuminate a jungle, with this haze, and not seeing the white light when the haze in near the haze that you start kind of seeing the lights? 


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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:58 AM

Smoke always reveals a hidden light source if coming from the background position -- you have to go bigger, farther, higher, and simpler with your lighting (if simulating moonlight) and let any small sources be motivated as practical illumination such as from flashlights, streetlamps, etc.  Or light from a non-backlight position so that the smoke is not so illuminated by the beam.


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