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60i ENG help...


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#1 MatthewG

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 02:34 PM

Wonder if any sdx900 users would give me some tips on making my 60i look better. Shooting in 24p with cinegamma looks stunning, but when I go to do simple news gathering in 4:3 60i, the results look like really aweful dv. Color is super flat and unbalanced, skintone is aweful and white/highlights are just an undetailed mash of uglyness. I do understand white balance, knee points and the such, and try as I may I can't get "useable" results in 60i. My reference for 60i ENG is a Sony Betasp D30, which i understand has some inherent advantages, but i am hoping to get at least a close aprox. with the 900. Any thoughts would be great.
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#2 Tim J Durham

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 03:00 PM

Wonder if any sdx900 users would give me some tips on making my 60i look better.  Shooting in 24p with cinegamma looks stunning, but when I go to do simple news gathering in 4:3 60i, the results look like really aweful dv.  Color is super flat and unbalanced, skintone is aweful and white/highlights are just an undetailed mash of uglyness.  I do understand white balance, knee points and the such, and try as I may I can't get "useable" results in 60i.  My reference for 60i ENG is a Sony Betasp D30, which i understand has some inherent advantages, but i am hoping to get at least a close aprox. with the 900.  Any thoughts would be great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi,
Try some of the downloadable scene files from the Pana website:

http://tinyurl.com/e36w5

In the menu below, click on "Downloadable AJSDX-900 scene files". You will need a flash card
reader/writer and you must use their naming convention.
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#3 MatthewG

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 03:30 PM

Hi,
Try some of the downloadable scene files from the Pana website:

http://tinyurl.com/e36w5

In the menu below, click on "Downloadable AJSDX-900 scene files". You will need a flash card
reader/writer and you must use their naming convention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I have been using these scene files since they were sent to me with Goodman's Guide. It appears to me that they are all designed for 24p, with perhaps scopnorm and scoptung the only exceptions. none provide satisfactory 60i ENG looks.
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#4 Achim Girnth

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Posted 18 July 2005 - 03:39 PM

Wonder if any sdx900 users would give me some tips on making my 60i look better.  Shooting in 24p with cinegamma looks stunning, but when I go to do simple news gathering in 4:3 60i, the results look like really aweful dv.  Color is super flat and unbalanced, skintone is aweful and white/highlights are just an undetailed mash of uglyness.  I do understand white balance, knee points and the such, and try as I may I can't get "useable" results in 60i.  My reference for 60i ENG is a Sony Betasp D30, which i understand has some inherent advantages, but i am hoping to get at least a close aprox. with the 900.  Any thoughts would be great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Matthew,

I am regularily shooting 50i PAL for television use. I use Filmlike 1(!) and I set HIGH COLOR to ON. The results look MUCH better than a Digibeta with FIT Chips. So, maybe your settings are wrong, because the advantages of the Gamma processing are not linked to shooting 24/25p ...
Anyway, check the setting of your Matrix and as already said, try the downloadable files and:

When shooting in Filmlike Gamma Modes, one always tends to overexpose because of the enhanced Headroom which the ENG Cameraman is not used to (It happens to me quite often, so I did a lot of testing on exposure...)

If everything is setup correct, your 60i images SHOULD LOOK GREAT!

Have a nice day

Achim
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#5 MatthewG

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 10:50 AM

Hi Achim,
Thanks for your response...I wonder if you would email me your standard 60i setting??? I know it is in PAL but I think I can translate it. I am curious to see how your "standard" looks in our camera. Frankly, we went out again this morning and shot some tests and it looks like a 1 chip dv camera. yuck.
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#6 Achim Girnth

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:33 PM

Hi Achim,
Thanks for your response...I wonder if you would email me your standard 60i setting???  I know it is in PAL but I think I can translate it.  I am curious to see how your "standard" looks in our camera.  Frankly, we went out again this morning and shot some tests and it looks like a  1 chip dv camera.  yuck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Matthew,

can't send you the settings before Friday, sorry. Included a capture from a scene I shot recently in the swiss alps. Typical extreme light situation with shadow inside car and extreme bright sunlight outside. The 900 handles these things very well. The same lighting on a D30 would produce a completely overshot white background otside the car, also would my SDJ800 do. I know several cams from intense working, none of them would give detail outside the car!
(exposure was about 5.6 with -3db and ND2, ouside stop about 16 ...)
So these are the results you should reach. I was very hurried for that shot but I always do exposure by hand. This is a bit blue, which I will correct in post (noon-light) but usually, color reproduction is also very fine with the 900.

I will send you my files as soon as I can.

Have a nice day,

Achim
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#7 MatthewG

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 01:30 PM

Wow Achim,
Thanks for the still image. That is a lot more latitude, highlight and shadow detail then I am currently getting in 60i. I am looking forward to receiving your 50i setup!
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#8 Achim Girnth

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 01:55 AM

I am looking forward to receiving your 50i setup!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Matthew,

sorry, it took some time since I was quite busy last week. Attached you find my settings for the daily TV work. Take care, it's a PAL 50i setting and it is 16:9, so just switch to 4:3!

One important thing I noticed, using the Filmlike1 Gamma setting is: If you are used to check exposure by zebra 70% and the viewfinder, you will tend to overexpose since the usual problems with "worn out" highlights (is this the right expression? In german we use the expression "ausgefressen") will not appear that fast. So do some tests in order to get a secure feeling on eposure. Anyway, the broadcasted results look absolutely gorgeous and differ very much from usual ENG stuff. TV tekkies will love you for using the 900!

Also: I use standard detail settings, but if you shoot technical stuff and architecture, yiu should reduce these settings to achieve good results.

I hope this works for you.

Greetings from sunny southern germany ...

Achim

Attached Files


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#9 MatthewG

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 08:32 AM

Achim,
Thank you so much for posting your ENG setting. For some reason, folks on this site have been hesitant to post 900 settings. I had hoped that there would be a whole community sharing 900 files, but alas it hasn't happened. I will upload and experiment and let you know what happens.
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#10 Achim Girnth

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Posted 01 August 2005 - 10:25 AM

Achim,
Thank you so much for posting your ENG setting.  For some reason, folks on this site have been hesitant to post 900 settings.  I had hoped that there would be a whole community sharing 900 files, but alas it hasn't happened.  I will upload and experiment and let you know what happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Matthew,

I think it is useful for all of us to share settings. Sometimes people forget, that it is not the setting which is responsable for good images, it is still the DOP ...

;-)

Have a nice day,

Achim
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#11 Achim Girnth

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 01:11 AM

Achim,
Thank you so much for posting your ENG setting.  For some reason, folks on this site have been hesitant to post 900 settings.  I had hoped that there would be a whole community sharing 900 files, but alas it hasn't happened.  I will upload and experiment and let you know what happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi Matthew,

already tried something???
I am quite interested in your results ...

Achim
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#12 Daniel Andreas

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 01:59 AM

Hi Matthew,

already tried something???
I am quite interested in your results ...

Achim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi Matthew und hallo Achim:

Unfortunately Achim's SDX900 will always look better than Matthew's camera -- that's not the camera's or the DP's fault but dueto the inferior NTSC television standard with less lines, bad color space and bad color reproduction etc. So whenever possible shoot on 24p or 30p.

Below might interest both of you: The first German film to be admitted to Cannes since 1993 (you know how those "Frenchies" love you Germans!) and shot with the SDX900 PAL:

https://eww.pavc.pan...fo/ibc/070.html
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#13 MatthewG

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 09:05 AM

Ouch, Daniel. The old NTSC versus PAL punch, right in the groin. Nice shot. I can only say that actually everything I shoot with my 900 is far superior to anything you shoot, because basically, you can't shoot worth a *&@!. gotcha. ;)

Hey Achim, I had to hand translate your setting as the card couldn't figure out the settings (PAL), but I think i got most of the right numbers in the right places and actually it looks pretty darn good. The 2 issues I still have are in shadow details and highlight details. On both extremes it just seems to lose detail and go to a flat black or a flat white without a lot of detail in either. But it still looks a lot better than it use to.
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#14 Achim Girnth

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 12:13 AM

Hey Achim, I had to hand translate your setting as the card couldn't figure out the settings (PAL), but I think i got most of the right numbers in the right places and actually it looks pretty darn good.  The 2 issues I still have are in shadow details and highlight details.  On both extremes it just seems to lose detail and go to a flat black or a flat white without a lot of detail in either.  But it still looks a lot better than it use to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi Matthew,

good to hear it works better. In black areas "Blackstretch" can help but tends to give a "low contrast" look to the whole image. In heavy highlights, I am very happy with the results i achieve with my 900, so it is hard for me to figure out what is happening with yout cam ...

Maybe you post a screenshot in order we can give comments?

cu

Achim
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#15 Achim Girnth

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 12:21 AM

Hi Matthew und hallo Achim:

Unfortunately Achim's SDX900 will always look better than Matthew's camera -- that's not the camera's or the DP's fault but dueto the inferior NTSC television standard with less lines, bad color space and bad color reproduction etc.  So whenever possible shoot on 24p or 30p.

Below might interest both of you: The first German film to be admitted to Cannes since 1993 (you know how those "Frenchies" love you Germans!) and shot with the SDX900 PAL:

https://eww.pavc.pan...fo/ibc/070.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hallo Daniel,

Thanks for the Link, didn't know the movie was shot with the 900. German (and european) Panasonic seems to be a bit sleepy on the marketing and promotion of the 900 because news like that should be spread to the community by them!
Anyway, the movie is titled "Die fetten Jahre sind vorbei" in Germany and showing in the cinemas right now, so I will go and watch it.

cu

Achim
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