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100D ektachrome and non-smpte cameras


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#1 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 09:08 PM

G'day,
Kodak's new 64T presents a problem for non-smpte cameras - ie. cameras with internal light meters that do not respond to the full range of asa notches on super8 cartridges. Unfortunately recently I supplied 6 such cameras (very nice Bauer 107-xl cameras) to people in the super8 group in my town. This camera only has two settings for film asa - 40/25 and 160/100 (at least from memory it is 160/100 - is this true?).
Well the pro8mm 100D stock may provide an answer... or does it? The 160/100 setting is 160asa tungsten without internal filter, 100asa daylight with internal filter. If the 100D stock was used outside (in daylight) but with the camera filter out - ie in the tungsten position - how would the internal light meter respond? Remembering that these cameras have only two asa settings, not four, is it the case that these settings are actually 40 and 160 and only nominaly 25 and 100 when you take into account the loss of light from the internal filter? If so, and I think it is so, then 100D does not solve my problem - with the internal filter out, the light meter would be set to expose the 100D film at 160asa. Am I right in this?
Regards,
Richard T.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 11:08 PM

with the internal filter out, the light meter would be set to expose the 100D film at 160asa.  Am I right in this?

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Yes. If the camera has any sort of manual control though, one could just use the camera's internal meter to get a reading and then manually open up by 2/3's of a stop to compensate (assuming that the notch on the 100D cassette is the same as for E160T.)

Anyway, wasn't E-160T obsoleted a few years ago and replaced by E-125T? The problem already existed.

I don't think it's reasonable that Kodak only release Super-8 stocks that can be read by the most basic cameras that only expose correctly for 40 and 160 ASA stocks.
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#3 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 03:39 AM

Anyway, wasn't E-160T obsoleted a few years ago and replaced by E-125T? The problem already existed.

Well yes and no. While E-160 went a few years ago, there was still a colour stock that such cameras could use - ie. k-40.


I don't think it's reasonable that Kodak only release Super-8 stocks that can be read by the most basic cameras that only expose correctly for 40 and 160 ASA stocks.

Yes, fair enough, neither do I. BUT there is a difference between ONLY releasing stocks that certain cameras (some quite sophisticated, but failing in at least this respect) and having available ANY stocks that such cameras can use.

It needs to be remembered that being able to use an internal automatic light meter is a useful option for many experimental film makers.
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 10:37 AM

I'm pretty adamant that shooting auto-exposure is the work of the devil, so I'm not someone who is sympathetic to this problem. Even as a teenager, I made sure my parents got me a Super-8 camera with manual exposure controls.

Like I said, if you can adjust the f-stop, then it doesn't matter if the internal meter is off if you know by how much to compensate.
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#5 A.Oliver

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 12:31 PM

what we really need is a slow speed, high resolving power film, in terms of resolution can anyone advise me which film has the greater resolving power e64t or 100d. I assume there is now no going back on kodaks decision to drop k40. I also understand kodak uk are running low on k40 and no sign of the new 64t insite.
Andy
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 01:16 PM

At CineGear, I joined a conversation at the Fuji booth to convince them to release 50D Velvia in Super-8, but obviously that's a corporation decision to be made in Japan and I don't have high hopes for that. They also make a 64T E6 film like Kodak.

Fujichrome Velvia 50D would be an excellent substitute for K40 in some ways, a good complement to a 64T stock.

Excluding Kodachrome, Kodak's slow-speed E6 reversal stocks are 64T, 64D, and a family of 100D stocks of various saturation and color biases. They also have a 160T and 320T Ektachrome reversal stock, although they are not particular saturated nor fine-grained.
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#7 A.Oliver

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 01:56 PM

Be nice to have k64 cut into 8mm and 16mm widths, however thats defeating the object of a kodachrome free world. However if kodak are still commited to kodachrome, surely one stock is better, than producing 16mm k40 and 35mm k64. Thats of course if 16mm k40 is still being made (i have me doubts). Would a daylite k64 stock be finer grained than a e64t stock? Seem to recall kodak a few years ago selling 50asa slide film, wonder why it was dropped? Sorry if i have strolled off topic a bit. Andy
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 07:41 PM

Would a daylite k64 stock be finer grained than a e64t stock?

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Only in the blues, because that layer could be made slower in speed.
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 11:07 PM

I don't think it's reasonable that Kodak only release Super-8 stocks that can be read by the most basic cameras that only expose correctly for 40 and 160 ASA stocks.

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That's excellent reverse logic.

Although I am not happy about the cessation of Kodachrome 40, One could also use reverse logic about that issue and say that Kodak is handing over their Kodachrome processing business to small businesses around the world who can provide E-6 processing.

Now lets hope the Ektachrome 64 is "good enough".
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#10 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 04:18 AM

Ultimately David I aggree with you. I have always really had an Ansel Adams attitude to exposure, developer, thermometers and room temperature and the inclination of ones head, etc.. I have the privelege of being in a small town that still has a community film group which provides a great context for having my own films screened. The town love us which is really nice. I want to keep this group going as long as possible. The group is varied, however, and comprises a lot of non-photographically minded people. Thats why I am looking for a solution to this post k-40 exposure issue. By and large, however, most of the other people in the group won't notice a slight increase in exposure. Its not what they are about. Since I order and buy the stock for the group, however, I would prefer if I could supply something to them that I felt suited what they were doing. But oh well. Another factor here in Australia is that currently there is no E-6 laboratory for movie film lengths. We are used to posting stuff o.s., but we are also used to not paying for the postage! (it being pre-paid with kodachrome) Again, Oh well. I am thinking of home processing the 64t for the group if necessary. At least then I can under develop as required if people's stock needs to be pulled to 40asa. Anyway, I thank you for your response.
Ricahrd T.
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#11 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 11:01 AM

Well the pro8mm 100D stock may provide an answer... or does it?


I shot 2 test rolls of Pro8 100D last week. It's actually notched for 40ASA, so I just stopped down 1 and 1/3rd stop from the internal meter reading.
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#12 Sam Wells

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 12:20 PM

Fujichrome Velvia 50D would be an excellent substitute for K40 in some ways, a good complement to a 64T stock.

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Provia 100F, also if not more !!

I think E100D & Velvia are insanely saturated for many puropses.

-Sam
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