Jump to content


Photo

I am considering a Super 8mm camera....


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:02 PM

Hello all,

I have been digging online for Super 8mm cameras the last few days and I am not sure what is the best.

I am seeing the emerging leaders...Beaulieu, Canon, Nizo...and a few other that get high praise...but I am not sure which is the best overall camera. I have also looked at the 8mm Classic Pro from Pro 8mm but I am not sure that I can ante up 2 G's for it...

Professionally...I have shot on Arri products like the 35mm Studio cam and the 16mm SR3...but I have been primarily working with DV for the last 2 years at my job...for my personal use...I would like to have an 8mm around to keep current with my film background...I can't feel like a film maker if I am behind a video camera all the time...I am sure you all understand what I mean...I have always had a certian amount of distain for video but it works and works well...its just not film...and I do love film so much...there's nothing quite like it...doesn't matter how many filters and effects you put on it in post...video will never be film.

I have looked at so many and I know they are all good in different situations...many folks suggest having more tghan one but one is all I can afford right now.

So...what do you all think I should be looking at??? I like havng interchangeable lenses...that is a plus for me...but I have also seen the Canon wide angle conversions and that looks pretty slick...but I know swapping lenses is the best way...

Anyway...any input here would be appreciated...

Thanks a lot,

John Blaze :D
  • 0

#2 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 26 July 2005 - 06:58 PM

Oh yeah...I just wanted to say that ...yes...I am a newbie to this website and that The 3 that I mentioned were the ones I liked most...I guess I was just hoping that a few of you could step forward and really talk about your experiences with these cameras...good and bad...in an open forum to reallu weigh the pro & cons to each camera.

My purposes would be for short film making...some MOS some with sound...I like that a chosen few actaully have crystel sync...that is such a cool feature with these cameas...

Thanks again,

JB
  • 0

#3 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 26 July 2005 - 07:28 PM

Beaulieu's main advantage is the interchangeable lens.

Personally, I love my Chinon's however. Quality camera for a low price.
  • 0

#4 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 26 July 2005 - 08:09 PM

I woulnd't buy from Pro8 myself: drastically over priced in my view. If you really need a Beaulieu with interchangable lenses, you can find them elsewhere.

I find the Canons to be very reliable - all of them - and they have good optics. For top of the line look at the 814XLS or 1014XLS. You can find them for $500 or less. But the mid-range models, like 814 Autozoom electronic, are good cameras and can be found for $200 or less.

Also, consider looking at the Nikon R8 or R10. Well worth the price at $500 or less.

With the Nizo's, they can have a lot of good features and are fairly easy to get repaired (compared to others) but they have a dim view-finder. Some people like them, some people don't.

I think your choice should be based on which features you are looking for - and it's hard if not impossible to find everything you want on one camera, so you do end up owning a few. For example, the Nikons and Nizo's run at 54fps for good slow mo, but the Canon's only go to 36. Important for some. Canons have a built in intervalometer and shoot 9fps, Nikon's don't. Nizo's and Nikons (frustratingly) have tripod mount at base of handle which never feels stable, while the Canons mount on the camera base. And they all feel different in the hand - weight, handle design, and so on. You need to hold them to feel which is most comfortable for you and your shooting style.

There are many other little issues I could go into, but you get my point. Try to handle a few and your preference will probably be clear in no time.

Good luck
Rick
  • 0

#5 John Hyde

John Hyde
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 26 July 2005 - 09:11 PM

A place to check out for used Canons would be Spectra Film in N. Nollywood. They specialize in rebuilt Canons with warranty, but offer other cameras as well. Very expierienced and friendly people with more reasonable pricing.

www.spectrafilmandvideo.com

The camera listed on their site is their fully outfitted Canon package with accessories. Be sure to call in for budget deals on other cameras not listed on their site.
  • 0

#6 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:52 AM

look out for canon 814 and 1014xl-s cameras, possibly the best run and gun/ newsreel type super 8 camera. Leicina special with 6-66 lens and the 10mm cinegon for the some of sharpest super 8 images you will ever see. Beaulieu 7008 with 6-70,6-90 lenses, not the greatest auto exposure imo, get it fully serviced and you will get superb images. That would be my shortlist
  • 0

#7 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 28 July 2005 - 08:59 AM

Thank you very much every body. You all have given me a lot to chew on...

I had been painstakenly going over the options for the cameras...I knew right away that each camera is different and that I wouldn't find ALL the best features in ONE camera...that is why I asked for help from you! ;)

I would love to have 2 or 3 cameras....I love cameras...I am a camera freak but...I am sad to say I have never held a Super 8 camera in my hand. :(

BTW I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin...right between Milwaukee, WI and Chicago, IL...if anyone has any suggestions about a camera shop near me I am all ears...

I was actually looking oon Ebay and I wantred to buy about 4-5 of them right away...I never realized how many options are out there...aside from the 3 I mentioned...I was also looking at the Nikon, Chinon...but what is the Leicina Special and the Cinegon? I have not heard of these.

I was hoping that this thread could be used by other people too...not just me...so when they come in...they might like to read this thread also for the same reason...so...I hope you all will continue to really voice your opinions on the various cameras...and voice them strongly...talk about your favorite features...and talk about the annoying differences too.

Let's make this an open forum...any brand...any camera...any features...pro/cons???

Again...thank you all very much...now I just have to decide! Hopefully you can help me decide!!!

John

:)
  • 0

#8 andrewbuchanan

andrewbuchanan
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 216 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chapel Hill, North Carolina

Posted 28 July 2005 - 10:26 AM

I'm a big fan of Beaulieu and Nikon. For the Beaulieu, you can get some really sweet industrial c-mount lenses (like Schneiders) in wild focal lengths and brand new for not too much $. You can also get high speed glass for low light. Plus is has some advanced features like zoom speed adjustment and crys sync. that the others don't. The 5008 seems to have less electronic stuff to break than the 6008 and 7008. The Nikon R8 and R10 seems to have great glass and a very steady frame.

If you get interested in a nice Beaulieu 5008 the was new when I got it, PM me. I have a very nice one with a new battery system from DuAll that I'm going to sell next month. It has the Schneider Optivarion with motor (perfect in every way), dummy battery system, spare dummy battery, hood and case. I even have the German manual somewhere.
  • 0

#9 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 28 July 2005 - 11:35 AM

leicina special super 8 camera made by leitz, specs include 3 focussing screens, leica m bayonet mount, single frame,9,18,25 fps, supplied with either a 6-66 f1.8 schneider zoom lens or a 10mm prime lens known as a macro-cinegon, optional extra is a timelapse unit. I did read somewhere a few years ago that the 10mm cinegon was the most corrected lens ever made for the super 8 system. Results yeided on k40 with the 10mm lens are stunning. Camera is superbly made, if a little noisy.
  • 0

#10 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 28 July 2005 - 02:05 PM

See...these are the opinions I was hoping for...the blunter the better...

You aren't making it easy on me are you? Man...they all sound wonderful really...I got to have good glass...and I was lookng at companies known for pretty good glass like Nikon and canon but that Bealieu is absolutely stunning as far as how functional it is...so many things to consider...so many options...

Any to stay away from???
  • 0

#11 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 28 July 2005 - 04:09 PM

not an easy choice, i admit. Up until two years ago i swore by the 1014xl, it is a superbly made camera.Then i got my hands on the leicina and beaulieu. If i had to choose one camera it will now be the leicina special, absolute no doubt.
  • 0

#12 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:44 AM

Like This one???

Posted Image

NICE!!!
  • 0

#13 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:58 AM

Thats it, i must also mention, these cameras are now at least 28-35 years old, after buying 3 lemons on ebay i finally got an 'as new' model from my local camera shop which was in full working order. My advice would be go for a newer type camera say a 814xls or 1014xls, or if your requirements are for interchangeable lenses, go for a beaulieu 4008,5008,6008,7008, all the beaulieus can be serviced. If you can locate a mint leicina at least consider this camera too.
  • 0

#14 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 29 July 2005 - 09:01 AM

If you could pick one from this list what would you want???

http://www.super8cam...shop/index.html

Some/all of you might already know about tis shop...yes I know...the same cameras cann be founf on ebay too...I am just using this website link for reference...it is the best web page I could find that will allow us to actually see a camera...

Posted Image
Nizo!

Posted Image
Canon 1014XLS!

Posted Image
Beaulieu!

If you need help posting pics let me know...

JB

P.S.
Question: Silent or sound?

I know they don't have sound film any more but...it seems the sound ones are more sought after...
  • 0

#15 Mike Crane

Mike Crane
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 29 July 2005 - 11:39 AM

Why not start with a Canon and move on from there as your needs grow. The Canon is vey reliable, user friendly and delivers great pictures. It is without doubt the best camera for first time use.

The other cameras will require more money to purchase and maintain. Plus, they are not as easy to use the first time out.

If I were you, I would just get the Canon and be done with it. ;)
  • 0

#16 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 29 July 2005 - 01:46 PM

Mike,

Honestly the Canon is the one I like the most...because its Canon...it's gonna have great glass...they are known for that...

Your right...I am concerned about ease of use...and the small format is its own little monster as opposed to 16/35mm...each are different and have differences. I guess that's why I would really like everybody to talk about the differences in application as opposed to their over all opinion of good or bad. I hope that makes sense...

Although I am not really a novice...my film experience is small. The last time I shot on film was in Nov./Dec. 2002 for a short film in Florida. That was 35mm and I was on an Arri Cam Lite and an Arri Cam Studio. That was the only time I ever touched a 35mm camera professionally. Great camera...by far...the most beautiful camera I have ever had a chance to touch. Before that ...I only ever shot 3 other 16mm shorts and the rest has been all video...Panasonic DVX 100a and Canon XL1S mostly....PD150 here and there...PD100a ocassionally...JVC 500 once...and the Canon GL2 presently....I work in education so everything we do is DV based. Besides that...the only other film experience was in film school...the Arri's are what I learned on there and after i got out I landed a handful of Camera Op. jobs and a 1st. AC position before landng my full time gig...just because I knew the Arri 16/35mm cameras really well. I guess they aren't picky in Florida! ;)

So...after that long pointless ramble...I can handle a better than beginner camera if necessary but I don't mind either way...the beginning is the best place to start...beause everytime I come into something I put myself in the mind of beginner...I forget all my other experiences and try to begin fresh.

Edited by John Schlater II, 29 July 2005 - 01:50 PM.

  • 0

#17 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 29 July 2005 - 02:24 PM

Hi, i agree, go for the canon. Not a fan of those nizo 4080,6080 etc range of camera, claw mech driven by a rubber belt which stretches over time and are a pig to replace, however the nizo is a quiet running camera. Canon sits better on a tripod than the beaulieu.The beaulieu 4008 has a 1/87th shutter, images which i shot with mine didn't look right, however the camera in the photo has possibly the sharpest zoom lens in the super 8 format, easily outperforming the canon in terms of sharpness ( i know others will disagree). Given those three the canon is the winner. Go for the canon 1014xls
  • 0

#18 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 29 July 2005 - 03:35 PM

o.k....what about...

Posted Image

the canon 814xl-s anyone?

Its significantly less expensive...main differences are????
  • 0

#19 John Schlater II

John Schlater II
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 29 July 2005 - 04:12 PM

Wow...nice Nikon R10 at ebay...should I throw a bid on this maybe???

If not...there will be others...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem
  • 0

#20 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 29 July 2005 - 07:14 PM

o.k....what about...

Posted Image

the canon 814xl-s anyone?

Its significantly less expensive...main differences are????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


1014 has a slightly longer lens (10x instead of 8x) and does in-camera dissolves. Not a real difference IMO and I would take 814 if it is less money. I have been shooting with 814XLS for 10 years and it has never let me down.

Rick
  • 0


Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Metropolis Post

CineLab

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

The Slider

Opal