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#1 Lars.Erik

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 12:51 PM

I did a search, but man, it turned out to be over 20 pages long.

My question is:

based upon your experience, does it make sense to shoot progressive 25P (24P in the US), when the footage will only be shown on the tv, let's say on the BBC?

A note, I love progressive, just I keep constantly having to discuss with editors about this subject.

Thanks

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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 01:10 PM

Sure -- film is essentially a "progressive scan" format and it's used all the time for TV. So use 25P when you want a film-look and 50i when you want a video look. It's just a difference in motion rendition, etc. No reason to use 25P if you don't need a film look though.
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#3 John Allardice

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 01:50 PM

Funnily enough, whilst watching the Live-8 concert the other week, I noticed that the performances from Paris were obviously being shot 24p. It was the first time I'd seen live stuff being broadcast in that fashion, one odd side effect of this ( may just be me, but I dont think so) was that it didnt feel 'live', the whole subliminal effect of the 24p gave the impression that one was watching a pre-recorded segment.
Possibly a reason that this format will not catch on for news gathering?

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#4 Lars.Erik

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 02:03 PM

I think you are right about that, John. And I'd say that is why interlaced will never be able to be a sufficient look for fiction, because it reminds us of ENG.

Unless it is some kind of way to tell the story better, of course. Say when you are cutting into news scenes in the fiction film etc.

Never did like those films where news shots obviously have been filmed with a 16mm or 35mm...
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#5 Charlie Seper

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:55 PM

People can get used to anything eventually though. We've had 24p around for decades so its what we're used to in movies. But you know, when stereophonics first started getting popular in the 60's, a lot of people didn't like it. I remember Bing Crosby and Elvis Presley both saying how they thought mono sounded better. Its what they were used to. (Actually, I still think mono sounds better and fuller). You should see my 70-year old pop salivate over listening to AM braodcasts of Cardinal baseball games on this old Grundig radio I gave him. Its got that sound of the radios they had when I was very young, like the old tube radios you had to wait for to warm up before they'd play. AM radio only had a frequency spec of around 100 Hz to 5K Hz but that's where all the "warmth" of sound is at. And I have to agree that its a neat experience to hear the ballgame through those old radios when you can find a station on AM that still broadcasts them with a strong signal. Sometimes hi-fidelity ain't all its cracked-up to be. But people can get used to anything over time.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 10:57 PM

But with the emergence of progressive-scan standard-def and HD video, there's no reason for people to get used to narrative fiction being shot in 60i, and they are more likely to see less of 60i for that purpose, not more. Besides, unless you have a good artistic reason (like emulating types of projects normally shot interlaced-scan, like the news or soap operas, etc.) do you really want to shoot the movie in a format that the audience "has to get used to"?
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#7 Charlie Seper

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 11:49 PM

I didn't mean to imply that people should shoot interlaced anything. I don't like interlaced video at all. I'm just saying that our tastes are obviously formed by our respective upbringings to a large degree. I would be willing to bet that if interlaced video had been around first, before film, that people today would say they didn't like the look of film.

And I grew-up with a lot of news that was on film reels. That said, I've never liked the look of news broadcasts shot on video. I've never liked the look of Johnny Carson on video for that matter.

But I'm with you, give me 24p any day.

Edited by Charlie Seper, 03 August 2005 - 11:52 PM.

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#8 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 09:20 PM

I own a copy of "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Silver Chair", one of the BBC versions. I can tell it was shoot in Interlaced video, and the FX sucked...

But to answer your question, even if your just going to TV with your movie, you will still notice a huge difference in 24p (25p) and 60i (50i)...

Edited by Landon D. Parks, 06 August 2005 - 09:21 PM.

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#9 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 02:04 AM

Progressive scan at higher rates such as 60fps still has a sligtly different look to interlaced footage.

I think that all it would take is a big name director to shoot a really good film in 1080 60p (when it arrives) for people to start to want to copycat that style. Although it may remain a niche.

I love 24p. But I still think that 50 or 60p is viable for digital projection in theatres. I do think however that such framerates may bring about their own shooting style. Can you imagine what slow motion would look like in 60p? Pretty cool I think.

There is one drawback to shooting at such high progressive rates. Unless home equipment keeps up there will be no way of making a progressive transfer to HD DVD or whatever is doing the rounds. The movie would have to be converted to interlaced form in order to keep the framerate. Not good.
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 05:31 AM

I own a copy of "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Silver Chair", one of the BBC versions. I can tell it was shoot in Interlaced video, and the FX sucked...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi,

Are you sure? The credits on Indb show FILM EDITING BY....

Could you be looking at a standards converted PAL/NTSC copy`

Stephen
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#11 Alvin Pingol

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 03:24 PM

Can you imagine what slow motion would look like in 60p? Pretty cool I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You can currently see something similar on television. Sporting events (tennis matches, often) use 2x slow motion playing back at 60i. The fluidity is amazing - it would be awesome to see this on a big screen...
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#12 Ed Moore

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 03:42 PM

Just to build on what Simon was saying, it's interesting to note that the BBC has (to my knowledge) stated that their goal is a entirely 50P system - i.e. that they will only genuinely have completed their transition to HD when it's 1080 50P and 50i/25P is just an inbetween.

Perhaps someone better informed might put me right, but assuming that's true it will be interesting to see what happens with glossy BBC dramas - whether they'll stick with 25P for that slightly floaty unreal look or bump up to 50P which seems to be either the best of both worlds or a horrible compromise depending on how you look at it.

Has anyone actually seen any footage originated and displayed at 50P?
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