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#1 Luka Sanader

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 03:21 PM

Hello everyone

This forum was very useful to me over the years and this is my first post.
I need some collegial advice on IIc upgrade topic. It is time to put my IIc ?flying circus? together or to put it out of the misery:). Most of my work (serious things) is with Arri 435 ES or 535b, IIc is my personal camera most commonly used as B unit or non-budget stuff. I always considered camera as ?box? for holding film, so I invested in optics. I like IIc because it is simple and has that Spartan spirit, small in size and nice for handholding. On the other hand it has poor stability, super bad viewfinder and couple dozen problems more, but don?t get me wrong I love IIc and it is amazing that camera from 1937 is useable today (mine is from 71). I am not happy owning equipment (I have 16SRII, IIc, set of T2.1 Mk2 standards?) but am les happier paying rent for low-and things. So now I need to make my mid and to see what am going to do with small personal 35. First option is to by 235, nice camera but I would never give so much money for that. Second option is 35III, excellent camera but bit to bulky and bad for HH. Third option is to make Hi ?Tec IIC to try to improve motor and viewfinder and still be able to fit in small pelican case.
In this moment I have 2x IIC body?s (one is PL and other 3 lens turret with arri B), 6 gates (2,35 1,85 X2 1,66 1,37 HS), 8 focusing screens, 4 motors (2x 24fps 16V, variable speed 16V and HS 24V), 7 mags (4x 400 and 3x 200), lot of old unusable glass (Schneider 24.28.32.50.75.150 in STD), long lens support with zoom motor and control (arri from `70) and angenieux 25-250 T3,9 arri head for IIc, wooden legs, IIc matt box, battery bricks, chargers, macro rings, hi-hat and lot of other things among other set of arri tools, parts and esc. This kit was privately owned and guy was first owner so everything is in excellent condition.
My plan is to let one camera as it is now for HH work: PL font, standard door, constant 24fps/16 motor, 3x 200 mags SR 16 minirods, SR followfocus, LMB 2 and battery belt. All this is packed in one small case.

I don?t have concept problem with that. That configuration served me fine before and in my opinion IIC is best HH 35mm camera under 70K. But is tit possible to make multi purpose, compact, modern, MOS camera for b unit and TV work/ or I just shod buy arri III and sale rest of IIC thing on garage sale?

I contacted almost all manufacturers of after market parts and upgrades for IIC:
P+S, Visual Products, Denz, Jurgen, Slcine, CE, Les Bosher, Azspectrum?and as more information I gathered more uncertain I am what to think.


Apparently best thing is to add CE motor and Jurgen door plus some minor upgrades such as Neutralite focusing screen, Les Bosher camera handgrip?So My final question is: is it worth to spend time and money and make this hybrid IIC????
Does anyone here have CE motor or Jurgen door I really need help on this one?
As I stated before only reason for me to make this hybrid is size. Visual product listed arri IIIc with CE motor and orientable door for 9,5k is it smarter choice? What is the real difference between IIC and IIIc?

I hope that I didn?t bored you guys to death

Thank you in advance,
Regards,

Luka Sanader, cinematographer
l.sanader@jujufilms.ca
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#2 Rolfe Klement

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 04:43 PM

in my experience on a 11c the best 2 accessories (that hold value) are CE crystal base and Jurgens Door with Video Assist.

That and Arri Follow Focus units and anything by Preston - never loose much value :)

The problem - the role of the 11C has been replaced and will be replaced more and more by the 235, for crash cams the Eyemo, and for promos and MV - the F900 and other HD

The point is what do you want to do by having your camera - I have a couple of cameras and I know the advantages - being able to train people up, running tests shots, using the camera on Video Assist for Previs work, cheap and quick promos, not spending 3 hours in traffic to get a camera etc etc

If I had the cash and even if I didn't I would get a 235. The camera will hold its value for a good while yet - it might be another 50 years before Arri release something that small for film - and I have played with one and they are a beauty - if you have even the slightest urge for one- don't touch one cause you will sell the house and car to get one.

The 111c - has adjustable door, crystal handgrip motor (up to about 50fps) but crystal at 24 and 25fps only. Most of the have the Variable Shutter - although telling them and the 11C with VS apart can be hard. And there were hardly any made (like 50 or something)

The big problem with a 111c is no-one knows anything about them (and spare parts are tough but if you know a good engineer they can make stuff up for you - I had an issue with the remote start on my arri 111C handgrip motor and no-one (neither Mr Arnold nor Mr Richter nor Arri GB, Arri Germany, Otto Nemenz LA etc etc) has any idea nor any documentation- eventually I just put a switch into the power cord instead

The highspeed gate is good as well - but I have run my camera at 60fps and have rock solid transport - the best stability I have ever seen is on Aaton gear anyway

So what I would do - is get the CE base, Door and Good Video Assist - send the camera for a full service and overhaul by VP (if needed) - but when you add the CE base it suddenly starts getting complex to handheld - maybe see if you can get a 111c Crystal handgrip motor (good for 24 and 25fps @ crystal speeds only)

thanks

Rolfe
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#3 Luka Sanader

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Posted 02 August 2005 - 07:58 PM

Thank Rolfe for quick response

You made couple god pints, I agree that IIc is going to retirement but 235 is too expensive for now so IIC will stick for couple year more. I agree that promos and MV are moving towards HD but I still prefer to shoot 35 when I can. By my opinion cameras don?t make picture, glass and lights do. Camera just runs film thro, and yes it is a question of comfort and bunch of small things that makes life EZ (glow, ES, swing viewfinder?) but at the and only thing relevant thing is what did you maid. I ?grow up? filming with junk and only problem I couldn?t solve was Glass so I became glass frustrated and yes first time I had chance I started buying lenses, and if you ask me I would rather shoot with S4 on Debrie-Parvo from 1922 (if it had PL) then with schnider primes on Arricam ST (if it had LDS-arriStandard). To get back on subject; am not in rental Business so every investment in equipment is basically bust and only way for any camera to repay it self is form my fee; If we put things in that way anything goes as long as it serves my needs and make my job easier. I am sure that 235 is super fun but for 70K I would rather by arri VP 1,2 and 3 and for the rest of money HD (Harley-Davidson only real HD)
And as old Latin?s use to say: ?All roads lead to Rome!? 35III seams like best solution for me. Definitely am not afraid of losing money on IIC hybrids or IIIC am just seeking for best solution. In any case that upgrade is couple weeks of my work and I can always say to my self that I was mugged on a way home. Make peas with my self :)

As you sad earlier biggest problem with IIIc is availability so I think am gona pass on that one. Pistol grip quartz motor is impossible to find and if founded owner will probably ask kidney for it.

I would like to know more about Jurgens door and if is any other way to improve IIc door with some kind of orientable attachment. Did Samcine in some point made similar things for 35Rmk2 and if my memory serves me good, Kish had same device for ArriBlimp 300. It is add that only Jurgen sow seed of interest in that ?big? market.

luka
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#4 Christian Appelt

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:51 PM

It's worth waiting for an Arri III, and some rental houses have sold their IIIs because in MOS work for commercials, some DPs are expected to turn up with a 235 or 435 - not for technical reasons but because it's the latest stuff.

And most of accessory parts are exchangeable between IIc and III, another important point.
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 01:04 PM

It's worth waiting for an Arri III, and some rental houses have sold their IIIs because in MOS work for commercials, some DPs are expected to turn up with a 235 or 435 - not for technical reasons but because it's the latest stuff.

And most of accessory parts are exchangeable between IIc and III, another important point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


However IMHO an Arri III is a pig to hand hold verses a 2c!

Stephen
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#6 Christian Appelt

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 01:43 PM

Sure, that's is a trade-off. Although I have not used my Arri 2 hand-held any more since I started using my Konvas 2M... :rolleyes:

BTW, here is another Arri III on eBay:

Arri 3 on eBay

Edited by Christian Appelt, 07 August 2005 - 01:47 PM.

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