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Color temperature of Golden light


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#1 Valentina Caniglia

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 02:47 AM

Dear all,

I saw Cinderella Man and I liked the usage of a yellowish 1940 light.
I would like to know what is the color temperature for those lamps that they have golden/yellow antique look.

Does any of you knows what kind of gel would work in order to get that color palette?
If I use HMI's should I put 1/2 CTS or 1/2 CTO and a tonality of yellow gel (which number for Lee or Rosco) on the lights or if use tungsten which gel should I put in order to get the golden antique color?

Thanks

Vale
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#2 Alvin Pingol

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 05:12 PM

Hi Valentina,

Keep in mind that the majority of the 'golden/yellow antique look' is a result of art direction, rather than merely the color of light.

I would bet that with clever art direction, tungsten left a little warm, and a bit of desaturation, you will get the look you're after.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 06:46 PM

Also remember that if all your lighting is gelled the same shade of orange-yellow, you can adjust the color in timing later to be more reddish-orange versus more yellowish.

You can also time white lighting to look golden.
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#4 Chris Cooke

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 06:50 PM

Very true Alvin. Art direction plays a big part in it. Another main factor involved in achieving this look is color timing. For instance, shoot your grey card (film) or white balance (video) with a 1/4 or 1/2 CTB on the key light then pull it to shoot. Also, desaturate the image marginally or do a bleach bypass. This way, you will have no need for CTO, CTS, Bastard Amber, etc. unless you want certain scenes or areas in the scene to look extra warm.
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#5 Chris Cooke

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 06:52 PM

Sorry David, you posted while I was typing and we kind of said the same thing.
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#6 Valentina Caniglia

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 03:42 PM

Thanks for your answers.

I am aware of the power of color correction but I want to achieve the golden look in production.
I will be working with the production designer as well on that.

Do you have any suggestion of what exactly I can do in production to achieve the golden look with the lighting? Which colored gels can give me that look? What kind of lights you suggest I can use to get the look and more importantly which color temperature is the yellowish light?

Thanks for your help

Vale
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#7 Chris Cooke

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 04:20 PM

http://rosco.com/inc...lor_Filters.pdf

Check this .pdf file out. 1/2 CTS or 1/2 CTO might work well, also Straw Tint and Bastard Amber. Many more choices though. Ask for a gel swatch books from Rosco, Lee and GAM. Too many choices for us to tell you exactly which ones you need for this project.
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#8 Luke Prendergast

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 04:26 PM

Lee 230 - LCT Super Correction Yellow - which is intended for low color temp carbon arc to tungsten correction, gives a magnificent honey-gold when used on tungsten, but it cuts a lot of output.
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 05:25 AM

Hi,

I like the golden light of dimmed tungsten. Very inefficient use of equipment, though!

Phil
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#10 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 11:01 PM

Hello Valentina,
It is hard to give you a complete answer because firstly it depends on what film stock or white balance you are using: If you use daylight film/White balance and use tungsten lights, your lights will appear to have a more golden warm feeling, whereas if you use tungsten, you will need to gel the lights. There are many ways to achieve golden/warm lighting (shooting a test would be the best option for you since it seems you want something very specific): I also feel that dimming lights gives them a very nice colour and quality, you could bounce a light into gold card/reflector, you could try bouncing a light off a yellow (or similar coloured) card, you could use straw,amber,bastard amber,yellow or any combination of them all gels, you could shoot your lights through a tea stained or dyed silk, you could use a low grade (1 or less if you can find it) coloured filter (antique suede, tabacco, yellow,straw, coral depending on how brown/yellow/red you want the image).
I suggest you shoot a test and try out any, or all of these techniques in islotaion or combination, and see which one you like best.
Cheers.
Tomas.
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#11 Valentina Caniglia

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 02:39 PM

Thanks to all of you.

If you would guess about a color temp. for the yellow light what would that be 28K or 42K or 38K?

Thanks

Vale
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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:09 PM

If you would guess about a color temp. for the yellow light what would that be 28K or 42K or 38K?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Color temp only describes how warm or cold something is to a reference point, not what shade that warmth is, how yellow-green versus magenta-red that shade of warmth is.

Plus what color temp looks warm depends on what color temp is "white".
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#13 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:27 PM

I'd argue that golden light is impossible to achieve in lighting since it's not a color... But I know what you mean - I just felt like being a smart ass :D
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#14 Valentina Caniglia

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 11:32 PM

If I use and HMI (5600K) with a daylight film what color temperature should I achive to get the yellowish hue on the light? or If I use a tungsten light (3200) with a tungsten film what color temperature shouls I achive to get the yellowish color on the light?

A good example. I recently saw Traffic and I was looking at the mexican footage that looks yellowish and golden.

Anybody knows how they achieved that? What film stock or print and what kind of proces did they use?

Thanks

Vale
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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 08:46 PM

Well, anything lower than 5500K would look warm if you are shooting on film balanced for 5500K. How much warmth you want is a matter of taste. The lower the number gets, the warmer the image. How yellowish that warmth is (warmth being more orange-ish) is not determined by color temperature. Color temp only concerns the amount of warmth or coolness of the light. Shifting that warmth laterally towards yellow or magenta is not a color temp issue.

Asking how much warmth is the right degree of yellow is asking how much salt is the right amount, not too salty or not enough. It's a matter of taste and has to be determined by testing it yourself. If you want to see what using a 3200K tungsten light on a subject shot with 5500K daylight-balanced film, you should shoot a test (or just take a digital photo set for daylight in a tungsten-lit room.) If that's too warm, then you know you need to use something between 3200K and 5500K.

"Traffic" used Tobacco filters for the Mexican sequence (and did a lot of processing work, photochemically and digitally, as well to increase contrast, grain, etc.)
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#16 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 01:27 PM

Hello,
when I was in film school the 1st AD from traffic came in to give a speach and told us that soderberg shot the mexico scenes with a Tabacco 2 filter and did a bleach bypass.
Cheers,
Tomas.
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#17 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 02:28 PM

Hello,
when I was in film school the 1st AD from traffic came in to give a speach and told us that soderberg shot the mexico scenes with a Tabacco 2 filter and did a bleach bypass.
Cheers,
Tomas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


For starters...

He THEN did a D.I., and THEN transferred that to film and duped it to reversal and back to negative again (or cross-processed the reveral to negative.) It was a heavily manipulated sequence.
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#18 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 02:29 PM

Another way to achieve a "golden light" in the highlights is to flash the master positive or prints. A blue light flash during printing will yield yellow highlights and a softer highlight contrast.
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#19 Valentina Caniglia

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:19 PM

Thanks David,

I shot variuos films with a tungeten light and a daylight (or viceversa)film for a special look and I know what you mean.
I will do some tests based on your suggestions and see how exactly will achieve what I am looking for.

Thanks again.

Vale
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