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S16 to Digibeta to MiniDV


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#1 Sol Train Saihati

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 11:53 AM

If I have learned one thing, it's stay away from S16 transfers to MiniDV, the results for me are often appalingly grainy and its seems to take the life out of the film. These stills are the raw stills from a number of different stocks both Kodak and Fuji, ungraded. I'll post up the stop and stock details when I get a minute to find the report sheets.

Attached Images

  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_1_Still_4.jpg
  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_1_Still_6.jpg
  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_2_Still_11.jpg

Edited by djdumpy, 13 August 2005 - 12:01 PM.

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#2 Sol Train Saihati

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 11:55 AM

A few more...

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  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_2_Still_12.jpg
  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_2_Still_13.jpg

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#3 Sol Train Saihati

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 11:58 AM

a few more... I'll try and post up the digibeta transfers to compare if I can get hold of them.

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  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_2_Still_15.jpg
  • Flectere_Rushes_VR_2_Still_17.jpg

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#4 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 06:35 PM

Hi,

I've had mediocre results with this chain too, but the problem was softness, not grain. Grain would be softened by repeated compression, unless it was provoking mosquito noise, and that isn't mosquito noise - although it's hard to be sure without seeing it moving. I guess it was at least somewhat grainy on the digi?

Check that it was dubbed properly. Many houses write off anything less than digibeta as a "rushes" or low-end format and you can get some horrible composite dubs if you're not careful. That said, what you have there doesn't look like that's the problem, either. It just looks like a rather sharp, slightly grainy transfer.

Phil
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 04:37 AM

Check that it was dubbed properly. Many houses write off anything less than digibeta as a "rushes" or low-end format and you can get some horrible composite dubs if you're not careful. That said, what you have there doesn't look like that's the problem, either. It just looks like a rather sharp, slightly grainy transfer.

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Phil,

I think the problem is that most (all?) mini dv recorders don't have an sdi or YUV in, just composite or firewire. I always ask when dubbing to put a mini DV tape in to the DVCAM machine. I can play that back in my Sony Camcorder .I am always told that it won't work, it always does and the quality is fantastic!

Stephen Williams DP

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#6 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 04:47 AM

Hi,

> I think the problem is that most (all?) mini dv recorders don't have an sdi or YUV in

All DVCAM decks from the DSR-45 up have component inputs, many with SDI as an option. The cheapest possible SDI device is actually a DSR-70, the portable edit station, with the SDI board in it. Regardless of that, DV over firewire is a digital component format and I would expect this to be used in lieu of anything else if that's all the deck had, and I really don't care what the post house's political opinion is of a type of connector. At the prices they charge I believe I am entitled to the best results.

> I am always told that it won't work, it always does and the quality is fantastic!

Been there... a lot of Sony miniDV stuff will play DVCAM. Again, one would expect these very highly paid post places to know this!

Phil
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 07:08 AM

many with SDI as an option. The cheapest possible SDI device is actually a DSR-70, the portable edit station, with the SDI board in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hi,

Its the SDI input option on the Mini DV they don't want! Then its just too easy to shoot on film, edit on a laptop and firewire out. I often use this workflow, I can Shoot 35mm edit on a laptop for the same price as shooting DigiBeta and editing at a facilities company! Unless I have any blue screen's or heavy compositing it works for me!

Just my 2c

Stephen
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#8 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 03:41 PM

Super 16 to DV25 via dubbing Digibeta has always looked very good for us. We always use top quality Xfer and Dubbing Houses. Problems occur once the edit begins for doing graphics/SFX's and compositing. You can't edit a short export out for "treatment" and then slug it back in to your timeline. You have to act on the "orginal" file. Every "CoDec" Cycle kicks the hell out of DV25.

Thats why D-1 and DVpro50 are better overall choices they can tolerate multiple generations better.

DV25 though is an excellent Offline format and I use it to edit on the fly on a 17" laptop in planes, trains and automobiles
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#9 Tim Carroll

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 05:46 PM

I do find this all confusing. We shoot regular 16mm and transfer to DVCAM, using the mini DVCAM tapes Sony makes, and our results look much better than what you have posted. And we have it done on a Rank, not even a Spirit.

I was always under the impression that miniDV and DVCAM were both DV25 compression and color space, the only difference between the two was the tape speed. That being the case, the house that does our work, charges quite a bit more to do the transfer to miniDVCAM than it would to do the transfer to miniDV. It may have to do with them using a much better deck and there is a deck charge, not sure. No one there seems to be able to give me a good reason for the increase in cost. But we always go with the DVCAM transfer because of the robustness of the tape and it's "archivability" B)

Tim Carroll
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