Jump to content


Photo

Nightshots on Tungstenfilm without 85-Filter


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Alex Fuchs

Alex Fuchs
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 89 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:29 AM

Hi, I'm going to shot an short on super16 in a few weeks. It's my first 16mm experience, so I'm a little bit nervous. All scenes of the film are playing by night indoor and outdoor. The indoor shots are not so difficult, but the outdoor shots are even complicated. I will shot on Kodaks 500T film. The director want's it look like Johnny To's PTU. She want's a look with very yellow lights. In fact most of the available lights are tungsten lamps (dedoligths, 3x2 kw, one 2,5 HMI Daylight, and some smaller units). So my question is how to use it and what do I do with the film. When I shot on a tungstenfilm without the 85 wratten filter all tungsten lights will become yellowish (aren't they?), but what is with my HMI lights, will they get blue? And what kind of conversion gel is to use (CTO?) I'm very confused about it and maybe someone can try to help me. Thanks a lot
  • 0

#2 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 21 August 2005 - 10:47 AM

Hi, I'm going to shot an short on super16 in a few weeks. It's my first 16mm experience, so I'm a little bit nervous. All scenes of the film are playing by night indoor and outdoor. The indoor shots are not so difficult, but the outdoor shots are even complicated. I will shot on Kodaks 500T film. The director want's it look like Johnny To's PTU. She want's a look with very yellow lights. In fact most of the available lights are tungsten lamps (dedoligths, 3x2 kw, one 2,5 HMI Daylight, and some smaller units). So my question is how to use it and what do I do with the film. When I shot on a tungstenfilm without the 85 wratten filter all tungsten lights will become yellowish (aren't they?), but what is with my HMI lights, will they get blue? And what kind of conversion gel is to use (CTO?) I'm very confused about it and maybe someone can try to help me. Thanks a lot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi,

Tungsten film is correct for tungsten lights. If you use HMI's or daylight then add the 85 or an LLD. Full CTO will convert the HMI lights to tungsten same as an 85 filter.

Stephen Williams
  • 0

#3 Paul Bruening

Paul Bruening

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2858 posts
  • Producer
  • Oxford, Mississippi

Posted 21 August 2005 - 02:03 PM

Hey Alex,

Stephen's got your number. Better to filter down the HMIs than to wrestle all those tungsten lights that come up in night, interior and exterior work. As well, If you try to manage the color with a filter, then you still have to match the lights with gels which can lead to unpredictability. If you feel like you have the budget to do your color in post, then shoot closer to normal and make the asthetic changes afterward. If your budget says do it all on the set, then you'll have to live with the results. Not that that's bad. I'm ashamed to say that some of my worst color work amazed and delighted the viewer. The bluff, "It's an art film!" has served me well. :D
  • 0

#4 Paul Bruening

Paul Bruening

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2858 posts
  • Producer
  • Oxford, Mississippi

Posted 21 August 2005 - 02:15 PM

... as well: Busting dalyight kelvins to tungsten kelvins is much more efficient than the other way around. The blue gels on tungsten lights can cut their efficiency by as much as 2 1/2 stops. You lose only about 2/3 stop correcting an HMI to tungsten temps. If you're like me, getting as much light out of low power electrical sources is a big concern.
  • 0

#5 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 21 August 2005 - 03:46 PM

... as well: Busting dalyight kelvins to tungsten kelvins is much more efficient than the other way around. The blue gels on tungsten lights can cut their efficiency by as much as 2 1/2 stops. You lose only about 2/3 stop correcting an HMI to tungsten temps. If you're like me, getting as much light out of low power electrical sources is a big concern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Hi,

If you are using tungsten film in daylight or with HMI's an LLD can be used in place of an 85. Its big advantage is NO STOP LOSS! The film can be printed normally.

Stephen
  • 0

#6 Dominic Jones

Dominic Jones
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 August 2005 - 01:35 PM

Hi,

If you are using tungsten film in daylight or with HMI's an LLD can be used in place of an 85. Its big advantage is NO STOP LOSS! The film can be printed normally.

Stephen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I've recently come across LLD filters - yet to use one though - but my question is:

I've only ever heard of them being used as camera filters - can you buy them in gel form for using on the front of tungsten lamps in daylight (I've looked through my Lee swatch and there isn't one listed there, but it's a *very* old swatch given to me by my tutor at film school, so if it's a newer gel it might not be in there)? Also, presumably the effect is not as accurate as CTB (or at least there is some downside), otherwise why do people still use CTB with it's 2-stop loss?

Sorry if these are obvious questions...

Edited by Dominic Jones, 22 August 2005 - 01:36 PM.

  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:43 AM

You've got it backwards. The LLD (for cameras only) partially converts daylight to tungsten balance, partially by removing excess UV and then removing some of the blue. You still need to time the image the rest of the way to correct 5500K to 3200K fully. It is meant as a substitute for 85 filters (orange).

To correct tungsten lamps to daylight (3200K to 5500K) you need BLUE gels, which do lose a lot of light, which is why most people try and use HMI's & daylight Kinos instead when 5500K lighting is needed.
  • 0


Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

Opal

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

CineTape

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Opal

Tai Audio

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

CineTape