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Newbie question, DV first, then 16mm?


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#1 Sean Simes

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 02:43 PM

Hey guys, just a quick question for a short film.

Would it make sense to shoot the entire film on DV, getting different angles and stuff, then edit it like you would the final film.
Then use that final DV cut as a shooting 'videoboard'(instead of storyboards) for 16mm final film?
It seems that this would help cut on unused film costs. I would get stand in's or friends to take the actors place... no need to pay actors twice.
Would this be practical, or a waste of time... in your opionions.

Thanks in advance.

Sean Simes
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#2 sneeze proof

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 05:51 PM

I personally would only shoot it once.

On the plus side of shooting dv first, you will be able to watch a draft version to see if the script and sequences work.

On the downside, you wouldn't be learning to do things right the first time, so when the next one comes along and you only get one shot, you don't have that experience.

I guess it depends on what you want to get out of the experience
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#3 Luke Prendergast

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 05:54 PM

Robert Rodriguez did something like this for parts of Once Upon A Time In Mexico. I think it's on the DVD extras.
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#4 Steven Budden

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 09:54 PM

I think if you're shooting to create a 16mm film for projection keeping the whole deal on film might actually be cheaper. I just started physically editing workprint, and a short doesn't seem that overwhelming at all (and the materials for editing are relatively cheap). I haven't delved into sound yet, which would be the most challenging issue, in this case. But not impossible.

Also, just try to get things right in a take or two. It is a silly practice anyway to just shoot anything that moves and try to put all that into a coherent whole (unless its a documentary perhaps). See Aviator.

How long is the short?

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#5 David Sweetman

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:33 AM

What does make sense is to do test-shoots of effects or stunts that are tricky. This will show you if the theory actually works, and will save time on the set because you'll be able to reproduce an involved effect much quicker.

For example, a script you've just written involves someone getting shot, and you want to use air-hose blood squibs. It is a good idea to take a few days really perfecting your blood squib technique. In any circumstance, this effect can be time consuming, but if you've got all your air hoses and blood-water ratios down to a science and you know how the flying blood will visually react with different backgrounds and lighting, the shoot can be greatly smothed over. Shooting the entire movie twice would probably just be a waste of time.
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#6 Sean Simes

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 08:49 AM

Thanks guys, all good advice.

The script is around 15 pages, so what i hear is this translates to about a minute a page... give or take.
There is no big action scenes, one guy gets his throat cut and dies in the main characters arms... there will be a few longer one-shots... like 20-30seconds with no cut. Also, these long shots will go from inside to outside... those i will need to plan the lighting before hand and probably do some tests for exposure changes.
So it looks like i could do some DV tests for a couple scenes, the longer ones, and just shoot the rest only on Film.
Another thing, the finale is the main character watching a videotape on TV, how will this film on 16mm? I will probably shoot the 'Video' he watches on DV and just film the TV... is this a no-no? Not sure about scan rates of TVs, i know Digital sees it as 'flashing' lines on TVs because of the scan rate difference... does this apply to film?

Thanks guys.

Sean SImes
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#7 Joshua Provost

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:25 AM

Sean,

The DV shooting seems an unnecessary step.

Good planning in drawing stroyboards, drawing overheads, and listing out your setups and cross-referencing the shots from each setup with the boards will get you the efficiency in shooting you are looking for. If you plan it right, you should never have to move the camera back and forth to the same spot, you'll get all the shots you need from each setup.

Josh
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#8 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 02:47 AM

Hello,
I usually work as a DP but recently Directed a short and because I was also going to DP the short I decided to have storyboards that would save me having to explain the set-up to multiple people on the shoot, I knew I would not have time to do this as I would be fulfilling the roles of two people. What I did was make video storyboards, I took an XL1 and shot a second or two of footage for every shot I knew I wanted, I stopped short of editing the shots into a pre-cut, but what I did was export still frames of each shot (or a begining and end frame if the shot had movement) and attached these stills to my shotlist. The shoot went exceptionally well and very smoothly, I really think the fact that I did these video stills really helped A LOT, everyone had an exact image (with stand-ins) of what the shot needed to look like and could just go and get on with doing what they needed to do without hours of conversation and explanation and let me get on with trying to do two jobs at once. I would suggest you do the same as I did, but doing a whole pre-cut/pre-shoot seems a little excesive.
Cheers.
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