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Fuji F-64D vs. Kodak EXR 50D


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#1 Louis

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 01:52 AM

I'm a huge fan of really slow speed films, and I'm having trouble deciding on one for an upcoming student short. I can't really afford to do more than 1 test toll, so I can't compare and contrast film stocks, and I can't decide between the Fuji F-64D and the Kodak's EXR 50D 7245. I'm sure they are both very sharp and the grain on both is very tight, but are there any other characteristics that make one more ideal in certain situations than the other? Just wondering.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 01:57 AM

7245 has a more distinctive look than F-64D. '45 is sharper, more saturated, finer-grained. It has a rich look. F-64D by comparison is more like using Kodak 100T (7212) outdoors -- a more natural look, lower in contrast & saturation.

For 16mm/Super-16, 7245 will give you more of a 35mm-ish look than F-64D.
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 10:11 PM

7245 has a more distinctive look than F-64D. '45 is sharper, more saturated, finer-grained. It has a rich look. F-64D by comparison is more like using Kodak 100T (7212) outdoors -- a more natural look, lower in contrast & saturation.

For 16mm/Super-16, 7245 will give you more of a 35mm-ish look than F-64D.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Kodak just showed the new Kodak VISION2 50D Color Negative Film at IBC:

http://www.cinematog...asp?newsID=8764

The company is also previewing images recorded with the new KODAK VISION2 50D
5201/7201 color negative film, which is scheduled to be available in all
formats in October. Mayson says the new negative is designed to give
cinematographers more creative latitude while filming high-contrast exterior
scenes in bright daylight as well as shots in mixed color temperatures. The
film is also optimized as a recorder output film.

The new emulsion will be the sixth member of the Kodak VISION2 family of
films, which was introduced in November 2002. The others are KODAK VISION2
500T 5218/7218, KODAK VISION2 100T 5212/7212, KODAK VISION2 200T 5217/7217,
KODAK VISION2 250D 5205/7205, and KODAK VISION2 500T Expression 5229/7229.


Sets a new benchmark for the lowest grain color negative film! B)
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#4 Louis

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 10:21 PM

Kodak just showed the new Kodak VISION2 50D Color Negative Film at IBC:

http://www.cinematog...asp?newsID=8764
Sets a new benchmark for the lowest grain color negative film!  B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Have you seen any samples of footage shot on 01 yet? In what ways is it different from 45?
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 10:45 PM

Have you seen any samples of footage shot on 01 yet?  In what ways is it different from 45?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sounds like it will look more like the other Vision-2 stocks, so less contrasty and less saturated. Which is great, although I think they should keep '45 around too for that snappy look it has.
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#6 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 05:36 AM

Sounds like it will look more like the other Vision-2 stocks, so less contrasty and less saturated.  Which is great, although I think they should keep '45 around too for that snappy look it has.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It will intercut well with the other VISION2 stocks, maintaining that "look". Significant reduction in graininess --- amazing, considering how low the grain in 7245 was!

David: When you were in Rochester last April, you met Merrick, the systems engineer for the new film, and Diane, the manager of the systems development group. Your comments, and those of others on Internet user groups, influenced the development of this great new film.
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#7 Sam Wells

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 10:55 AM

Which is great, although I think they should keep '45 around too for that snappy look it has.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I do too !

But I will try the 01.

I volunteer to do the overexpose 1 and push 2 test B)

-Sam
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#8 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:52 PM

all these improvements, yet k25 had no grain, is the new 50d now comparable to the late k25 lack of grain????? Andy
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 01:13 PM

all these improvements, yet k25 had no grain, is the new 50d now comparable to the late k25 lack of grain????? Andy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


K25 did have grain. And it was a full stop slower.
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#10 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 01:23 PM

but the winner is k25!!!!!!!!! Will the new 50 be available in the super 8 cartridge?
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#11 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 01:45 PM

but the winner is k25!!!!!!!!! Will the new 50 be available in the super 8 cartridge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You don't seem to be very interested in the new film, since you are still mourning K25, which was discontinued over three years ago. ;)

For now, 7201 will not be available in Super-8.
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#12 A.Oliver

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 02:07 PM

Quite right, i must stop mourning the passing of k25 ( 6X16MM k25 still in the fridge ), look forward to the new 50d, yes i do use the superb vision 2 range, though 16mm k40 is the stock i use the most. ( until the announcement us kodachrome users are all dreading. 'next year i fear' )
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#13 Louis

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 06:40 PM

Usually a few months after stocks come out, Pro 8 in Burbank usually comes out with an 8mm equivalent. Back in June, they came out with super 8 versions of both of the new Fuji stocks (500T and 500D), as well as Kodak's 7205, '12, '17, and '18.
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#14 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 10:41 PM

Yes, for years I've been saying that we needed a SLOW speed wide-latitude film for shooting in sunlight, more than the low-con high-speed negatives which tend to be in situations where you are lighting and can control contrast more exactly.

So this new 50 ASA stock sounds right up my alley.

I just hope they keep '45 around for when you need that saturated contrasty look.
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#15 Mike Williamson

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:12 AM

'01 sounds like a great stock, I'm looking forwards to seeing tests and hearing reactions. I agree with David that it makes sense to have a lower contrast stock for bright day exteriors, which is why I've always liked the Fuji 64D more than the EXR 50D. I'm curious to see this stuff in action, anyone have plans to shoot with it on upcoming projects?

Sam, I'm volunteering to shoot the two stop pull at 6 ASA...
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#16 Sam Wells

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 09:40 AM

'Sam, I'm volunteering to shoot the two stop pull at 6 ASA...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Cool, we'll have it surrounded !

Then we combine your shots and mine in AE and we know what it looks like normally :D

-Sam
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#17 Tomasz Augustynek

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 11:56 AM

I've just used a lot of 64D, both 16 and 35mm for a commercial and documentary.
Comparing to 50D, Fuji seems to be a better stock for telecine. Carries more details in highlights and blacks. Colors are certainly more natural.
Unfortunately I haven't printed 64 yet.
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#18 Yemi Adesanya

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 01:43 PM

You don't seem to be very interested in the new film, since you are still mourning K25, which was discontinued over three years ago.  ;)

For now, 7201 will not be available in Super-8.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm delighted to see Vision2 technology in a low speed daylight film. IMO, If any format stands to really gain from this, it would be super8. And in case anyone is mislead, super8 cameras were designed for both tungsten and daylight stocks. The 85 filter is removeable!

With Vision2 200t and 500t Kodak have almost succeeded in dragging super8 out of the dark ages. They need to finish the job with a low speed negative. Let's keep reminding them from time to time and hopefully we'll get there.

Here are some clips of 200t and 500t super8 I posted on an 8mm forum a while ago using an anamorphic x1.5 lens to produce 2:1 images.


First clip is a Canon 814 XL-S and 500t at night shooting with the XL shutter and no additional lighting:
http://www.stanford...._v2_500t_od.mov

Next we have the 814 XL-S during the daytime with 200t:
http://www.stanford...._v2_200t_od.mov

Finally the Canon 518sv with 200t indoors:
http://www.stanford...._v2_200t_in.mov



:)

------
Yemi
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#19 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 11:30 PM

Nice clips Yemi. boy what a kick in the pants 50D would be in S8. As a prosumer format, S-8 negs are a great alternative for a supurior look and aesthetic that the DVX100, and DVCam can't touch. The 17 and 18 can already be tightened up fine when lit properly, a 50D would finish it soo well.
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