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New Canon HD Camera….Fact or Fiction?


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#1 Dan_Lippman

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 06:01 PM

New Canon HD Camera?.Fact or Fiction?

This is the million dollar question??. Over the last year I have listened to every conversation, read every article, and tapped my most useful resources but nothing is better that from the preverbal ?Horses Mouth? and that mouth is the fine people at Canon.

I have always wondered if there will be an XL-3 released and my sources at Canon have confirmed that there will be an announcement this month. What that announcement is I have no idea but, what I can tell you is that during my last conversation with Mike Zorich he stated that company officials ?have the intention to release a high-definition camcorder soon. Mike emphasized Canon?s dedication to HDV, and that the XL-2 will be the last SD camera from Canon??? While he did not have a timeline for when a camera would be ready to announce a different format, like HDV / HD. ?We have a lot of work ahead of us in terms of design and engineering.? Zorich added, ?Canon does not have a history of making product announcements a year out; we usually like to announce a product and then make it available for creative users for about six weeks after we announce the product?

Well Canon?s Expo is a week away; my deep digging into one of the most coveted issues this year might pay off?..can anyone guess what the announcement is going to be?
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#2 Christopher Bell

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 09:12 PM

No other product creates more speculation and rumor than Canon's next XL camera. I remember 2 years ago when there was some rumor about a guy who saw a XL-2 box at a factory (HD, 24p ect.) It was all made up. No doubt Canon is working on an HDV camera, but it's anyones guess when it will come out. History tells us it will be later, rather than sooner.

Canon is a giant company, and moves at its own iceberg pace.


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#3 Marco Leavitt

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 08:00 AM

I'm sure everyone's seen the news by now. Twelve grand and no 24p? Could not be less interested.

No other product creates more speculation and rumor than Canon's next XL camera.  I remember 2 years ago when there was some rumor about a guy who saw a XL-2 box at a factory (HD, 24p ect.)  It was all made up.  No doubt Canon is working on an HDV camera, but it's anyones guess when it will come out.  History tells us it will be later, rather than sooner. 

Canon is a giant company, and moves at its own iceberg pace. 
Chris Bell

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


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#4 Christopher Bell

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 10:52 AM

Looks like the rumors were finally true:

http://www.camcorder...with-No-24P.htm

No progressive, no 24 fps. Looks like Panasonic and JVC will own the indie digital filmmaker world. Too bad Canon was not able to progressive, they have such a strong following in the indie world.


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#5 AshG

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:28 PM

It is not that simple... they claim to have a new 24 frame mode called 24F... at first glance I dismissed the camera asa well but it appears to be a solid choice for a studio environment allowing uncompressed HD over SDI out to a computer or HD deck. We will have to wait and see what the 24F looks like but early reports say it looks good and uses the full 1080i rez...


ash =o)


Confirmed Specs

* Uncompressed 1080/60i 4:2:2 HD-SDI output at 1.485 Gbps

* Multi-format external HD recording to HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, etc.

* Genlock input and TimeCode input /output

* 20x HD L/SR OIS lens (5.4mm-108mm, f/1.6-f/3.5, 72mm fil.)

* 3 x 1.67mp CCDs (native 16:9 shape), 1440 x 1080 effective

* Digic DV II processor supporting 30fps & 24fps
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#6 Maurizio Tiella

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 10:34 AM

One more link to the Canon HDV:

http://www.optexint....xlh1/index.html
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#7 Charlie Seper

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 11:09 AM

HA! I knew the next XL version would be HDV.

It DOES do 24fps. What it doesn't do is record 24fps progressively. I wouldn't worry too much about that though. Most decent cams can do a very convincing "frames mode" look these days including Canon. Besides, you can always deinterlace in post; that couldn't be easier. Its getting a true 24 frames per second that's always proved difficult in post. As long as you've got that, the deinterlacing is a piece of cake. Even a free proggy like VirtualDub can do a good deinterlacing.

I also like that "uncompressed HD-SDI and SD-SDI output". I'm not sure how you'd record it (short of an expensive D5 or something), but an uncompressed HD signal from a $9,000 cam would be an amazing bargan.
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#8 Maurizio Tiella

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 02:01 PM

HA! I knew the next XL version would be HDV.

It DOES do 24fps. What it doesn't do is record 24fps progressively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But the 24fps (25fps for the PAL version) is an option, and it willl certainly boost the price of the camera.
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#9 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 03:02 PM

I expected more of Canon... Just as they cross into the 24p world, they go back out again in favor of 1980's Interlaced video, yet somehow they still state in there press release "We are often not the first to launch emeging technologies but when we do we come to market with products that ergonomically and technologically exceed what is out there,". That is an outright lie, I find it hard to see how this camera will compete with the new AG-HVX200.

Plus the camera is about as ugly as they come, what happend to the nice red/black look and black/white sleek look of the XL1 & XL2?

I'll wait for the AG-HVX200 for $6,000.00 that has 1080 24p recorder to a P2 card then the canon for $9,000.00 that has 60i Interlaced video still recorded to MiniDV tape.

Shame on Canon....

Edited by Landon D. Parks, 15 September 2005 - 03:02 PM.

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#10 Charlie Seper

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 04:22 PM

"But the 24fps (25fps for the PAL version) is an option, and it willl certainly boost the price of the camera."

I think you may have read that backwards. Here's what the site says:

The XL H1 is capable of recording and playing back High Definition (HD) images using DV cassette tapes. The camcorder records in HDV1080i, and uses a Mode Select and a Frame Rate dial to select HD signals or SD signals and the frame rate.

The images recorded on the tape are configured as follows:
Under the "HDV1080i" (HDV) specifications, 1440 x 1080 (16:9) images in 60 fields (or 50 fields for PAL*) are recorded. (60i/50i recording)

Under the "HDV1080i" (HDV) specifications, 1440 x 1080 (16:9) images in 30 frames (or 25 frames for PAL*) are recorded. (30F/25F recording)

Under the "HDV1080i" (HDV) specifications, 1440 x 1080 (16:9) images in 24 frames are recorded. (24F recording)

*Assumes 60i/50i Mode optional upgrade has been performed.


It looks to me as though the 24f is standard and the 30/25f and 60i are optional.
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#11 Charlie Seper

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 04:50 PM

"I'll wait for the AG-HVX200 for $6,000.00 that has 1080 24p recorder to a P2 card then the canon for $9,000.00 that has 60i Interlaced video still recorded to MiniDV tape."

I like the new Panny too, however, there are some differences in favor of the Canon.

For one thing, those P2 cards are around $2000 last I heard. So there's no price advantage in favor of the Panny by the time you buy a recording medium for it.

Secondly, while the HVX200 can also output uncompressed HD it can only do this by way of the analog component outputs. Whereas the XLH1 keeps it all digital at 4:2:2.

Third, I disagree about the look of the Canon. I think its a beauty. It's also much larger than the Panny and will balance better for shoulder mount work. I'm not sure the Panny is even heavy enough to use a shoulder mount with it realistically.

Fourth, (and admittedly this is a prideful comment) the shear size of the Canon makes it look much more professional. This may mean nothing to you or I, but it will mean a lot to your clients, or potential personalities for documentary interviews etc.

Fifth, I'm 6'5" and while I've never owned an XL1/2, I have been able to play around with somebody else's XL2 once and I must say that its built for a big guy. I was afraid the eye-piece would be difficult to get at while resting on my shoulder, or that the controls on the lens support would be clummsy for me, but I was pleasantly suprised that it fit me like a glove. This XL-H1 appears to be the exact same body style and size. For guys over 6'2" that's a great thing.
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#12 Tristan Nieto

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 06:45 PM

If the XL H1 is totally backwards compatible, does that mean you can still use the Mini35 converter for the XL1? The ground glass is probably too grainy, but it might be an interesting effect. Conversely, I wonder if you can mount the 20xHD lens on an XL2 - it might sharpen the image a tad.

Just thinking out loud.
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#13 Rodrigo Llano

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 07:08 AM

i think the most of people are worry about new hd products..
But i think that is important to remember that all this HDV camcorder are that an HDV format...
usually the brand sellers try to show us (and sell us) the 1080 resolution stuff.. but usually "forget" the recording compression..
also they never say that the chip size is a important thing when we talk about resolution.
You can not compare a real HD camera with those cameras , have 65k (usd) of differences...

uhh.. the Lense.. an "HD" camera with a no focus marks lens????

MR. CANON WE ARE SERIOUS FILM PEOPLE, JUST BUILD A SERIOUS LENS....PLEASE
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#14 Oliver Ojeil

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 08:44 PM

any of you guys have shot on the Canon XL H1 ? I'd like to see some tests or if anyone can share his opinion after having used it.. also what do you guys (who have used and tested it) think about its workflow from production to post?
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#15 David Gottlieb

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 09:41 PM

any of you guys have shot on the Canon XL H1 ? I'd like to see some tests or if anyone can share his opinion after having used it.. also what do you guys (who have used and tested it) think about its workflow from production to post?


I hate to write a second-hand comment but I only know of one person who has used one. He said that it worked incredibly well, producing an incredible image while having the most extensive menu options for a camera under 10K right now. This was also from a person who swears by and only owns Panasonic and the DVX series, so it was slightly surprising. He is a cameraman for a local news station around here, but I only got to talk to him once. The only negative he pointed out was that it is interlaced so it doesn't look like film, just very clean and well-defined video. He seemed very impressed overall; sorry I can't be more specific, but you should most likely look for reviews: they should be out there, even if this board has been unused for some time.
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#16 Oliver Ojeil

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 08:44 AM

So basically, eventhough the canon is beleived to have a very "good" picture quality, in resolution it is still inferior to the other 24p progressive cameras.. whereas with canon we're getting half of that resolution since it is interlaced, and thus the lines per frame are inferior?
I guess the only strong thing would be getting native HDV output from the camera
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#17 Cameron Fraser

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 06:07 AM

So basically, eventhough the canon is beleived to have a very "good" picture quality, in resolution it is still inferior to the other 24p progressive cameras.. whereas with canon we're getting half of that resolution since it is interlaced, and thus the lines per frame are inferior?
I guess the only strong thing would be getting native HDV output from the camera


If this is the case... and for my particular purpose the native hdv output is a big plus... what, if anything, can be done in post to try and increase the film look?
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#18 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 12:01 PM

The 24F function on the Canon XL-H1 is pretty good. Sure, it's derived from 48i/1080, processed into 24P and then recorded as 60i/1080 with a pulldown, but it's probably similar to shooting on a 50i/1080 HDV camera and processing it in post to 25P.

Yes, it would be better if it were true 24P/1080, but how many consumer cameras do that anyway? So what are your prosumer options other than the HVX200 (24P/1080 and 24P/720, but the 24P/1080 still comes from 720P chips) and the JVC HDV camera (24P/720)?
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#19 Peter J DeCrescenzo

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 12:38 PM

I hadn't seen it mentioned in this thread, but my apologies if this has been previously discussed; just an FYI:

I believe Walter Graff and others have reported HDV recordings produced by the new Canon cam are not playable on other HDV cams or decks.

I don't think this situation is entirely unique to the Canon HDV cam, but note that Canon has not announced an intention to release a compatible HDV deck. As a result, the Canon HDV cam must be used for all playback and capture operations involving tapes it generates.

If true, this might not be an issue for low-volume shooters who edit their own material, but means others who need to work with the footage would have to also obtain a cam just to work with it.

As I haven't worked with the Canon HDV cam myself I don't have first-hand verification of the above, so it would be wise to confirm this information yourself. If I'm incorrect (and it would be nice if I was), my apologies to all.
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