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Ultra 16


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#1 Pav

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 02:36 AM

Hi

I have used Super 8 for years but I am new to 16mm. I have a Canon Scoopic M. I want to be able to convert it to Super 16, but have been told that although possible it's very difficult and not really worth it.

A friend has told be about an alternative - Ultra 16. Do many people use Ultra 16? Are labs and telecine house familiar with it?

I understand that instead of widening the frame 2mm out to the edge to cover the sound area the frame is widened 1mm both ways so the lens stays centered.

I know the scoopic's lens will cover the extra 1mm at both ends, but if I widen to Super 16 - the 2mm to one side I dont know if there would be vigneting - Does anyone know?

Does this 16 use the same amount of film as Super 16 and has the same resoultion?

I hope someone canen help me.

Pav
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#2 Mark Williams

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 04:42 AM

I am also very interested In Ultra.. This has to be an Improvement over Super 16mm EVEN taking into account that you end up with 3% Less in frame size (Negligable) Because you dont have to alter lenses Mags or anything other than the Film Gate where you have to take off 0.75 of a mm..You could also have more stability by having film with Sprocket holes both sides..

0.75 Sounds very little! I wonder if anyone knows whether you could go for 2.35:1 By taking off 1.5mm each side This COULD be greatly BENEFICIAL...
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 05:46 AM

Lots of discussion elsewhere on this forum. Just do a search.

Biggest issue is that it is not a format standardized by the SMPTE, so not everyone is set up to handle the format. You also need to be careful that the image doesn't fall into the areas set aside by the SMPTE standards for edgeprint or transport of the film (most equipment transports the film by touching the areas between the perfs).
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#4 Matt Pacini

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 12:25 PM

"... I know the scoopic's lens will cover the extra 1mm at both ends, ..."
Pav

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm wondering how it is you KNOW this.
I'm planning on modifying my Scoopic M, but this is the biggest reason I haven't yet. If the lens doesn't cover it, the camera is crap.

Plus, I don't think it's only 1mm at either end, I believe it's more, but I can't remember the exact specs.

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#5 lluis

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 02:12 PM

[quote name='Matt Pacini' date='Sep 13 2005, 05:25 PM']
I'm wondering how it is you KNOW this.
I'm planning on modifying my Scoopic M, but this is the biggest reason I haven't yet. If the lens doesn't cover it, the camera is crap.


The 12.5-75mm lens of the Scoopic 16M that I converted to super 16 covers the super 16mm projected area at all focals, with excellent resolutions even at corners! It's must be full centered with the gate. With U16 it'd covers more plenty... In my case I only have 2 limitations because vignette: at minimal focus (1.1 to 1.7m) and I can't use 72mm front filters (I use series 9). Anyway always there are minimal differences between lenses...
All the best.
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#6 Pav

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 01:55 AM

Well I am assuming, based on what someone has told me. Basically when I was researching this camera, I came accross someone who has converted a Scoopic to Super 16. So to all those pescimistics who say it can't be done on a scoopic, the Scoopic can be converted to Super 16, but apparently its very tricky and probably not worth it.

Anyway I asked this person if the lens covers the Super 16 area after conversion. He has a Scoopic M and well, he says the lens covers the Super 16 area well. So I figure a Ultra 16 conversion is probably easier and the lens should cover this space on both sides without a problem.

I will be testing the Ultra 16 this this weekend, I have given the gate to a jeweler friend and I will be filming with it this weekend so should really know soon. I have asked some telecine places and they say that they can pull back about 1.2mm on both sides without a problem - so this should easily cover the Ultra widh.

Pav
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#7 Matt Pacini

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 01:27 PM

Wow, that's great news, Pav.
Please let us know how it turns out. I've got a Scoopic M, and I'd like to do the conversion!
How hard was it to get the gate out?

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#8 Mark Williams

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:51 PM

Pav Im with Matt on that let us know ! Greeeat stuff :D
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#9 Paul Vanderhoof

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 06:04 PM

Pav Im with Matt on that let us know !  Greeeat stuff :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes! For myself as well. Have my 16MS ready to try Ultra 16mm but was waiting for a spare gate or a more daring individual. Keep us posted. By the way, my understanding of the Ultra 16mm gate was that you shave .7mm from each side, just to leave room for the edgenumbering.

Paul
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