Posted 14 September 2005 - 09:23 PM
Posted 14 September 2005 - 09:36 PM
Posted 06 October 2005 - 12:55 PM
If I am not mistaken it is 'behind the lens net' + smoke.
Yes, he uses behind the lens nets. There has been a lot of discussion about this in the past, so try doing a search. You may also find searching for Robert Richardson to be helpful.
Posted 26 December 2005 - 11:26 PM
Does anyone know exactly how he does this? Also, was Munich a digital intermediate or merely heavily processed in lab? I'm kind of a newbie to cinematography, but I have to know how Kaminski gets this look since it's so distinctive and really brings a contrast and surreal power to the frame. (I also like how he integrated it with zooms and a grainy (Vision 500 stock?) aesthetic in Munich.) I hope American Cinematographer has an issue on it.
Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:05 AM
Sometimes you can get a red ring around a light from using a lens with the right combination of uncoated elements.
"Munich" is obviously full of Classic Soft filter artifacts, no question on that (so is "War of the Worlds.") Plus nets in some shots, and the switch to something more like ProMists or something foggy like those for the night attack at the docks in Beruit. I just tested some Classic Softs for a feature and got the same ring effects around glints of light off of cars, etc.
There is a lot of zoom lens shots in "Munich" as well.
Rumor is that Kaminski did not want to do a D.I. for "Munich" -- since it was a Super-35 shoot framed for 2.35 scope extraction, the blow-up to anamorphic would have been done the old-fashioned way, using an optical printer. If it was, it was done well -- I thought it was a very sharp blow-up (given the diffused photography). I suspect he used mostly Kodak 5279 (Vision 500T) for most scenes, especially at night, but that's a guess based on what he did for "War of the Worlds", plus some rumors I overheard. He may have done some sort of ENR-type silver retention / bleach-bypass at some point as well, either to the prints, the intermediates, and maybe some scenes on the original negative. This would tend to "sharpen up" the image.
Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:14 AM
"Munich" is obviously full of Classic Soft filter artifacts, no question on that (so is "War of the Worlds.")
I saw Munich last night and cracked open a War of the Worlds xmas gift today and though much of the two movies looked very similiar. That's not a criticism. Just a mental note. I enjoyed both and thought the looks were appropriate for the subject matter.
Edited by heel_e, 27 December 2005 - 12:21 AM.
Posted 27 December 2005 - 08:01 AM
Posted 27 December 2005 - 09:01 AM
Mario C. Jackson
Posted 27 December 2005 - 11:56 AM
Yes Kaminski uses a net behind the lens, although I do not think that he is the originator of this method. A gaffer I know told me the name of the guy who started it but I cant remember his name.
Mario C. Jackson
You're joking, right? Net diffusion dates back before the invention of cinema -- it's probably one of the oldest forms of lens diffusion. It started being used in silent era movies such as "Broken Blossoms" (1919.) 1930's movies were often shot with nets either behind or in front of the lens.
Even looking at contemporary movies (post 1970), you've got examples like Douglas Slocombe's "The Great Gatsby" and Conrad Hall's "The Day of the Locust" (both emulating to some degree the diffused glamour look of early Hollywood studio films).
Probably the most significant use of nets at the time was "Fiddler on the Roof" (DP Ozzie Morris), which used a brown pantyhose over the front of the lens for the whole movie.
Even before that, Hitchcock had DP John Warren shoot almost all of "Torn Curtain" (1966) with a gray net.
Nets for just close-ups has never really left -- you can even see it in Jean Simmon's close-ups in "Spartacus".
More recent examples would be Robert Richardson, who shot films like "Snow Falling on Cedars" with net diffusion, "Bugsy" (Allen Daviau), "From Hell" (Peter Deming).
Most of "Excalibur" (1981) was shot with white nets over the back of the lens, and Harrison Black Dot Texture Screens over the front.
Walter Lassally ("Tom Jones") was also famous for shooting most of his movies with a net.
Besides Kaminski, probably Robert Richardson is the most common user of net diffusion these days (although not much of "The Aviator" was shot that way.)
Posted 28 December 2005 - 01:47 PM
Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:04 PM
Sorry for derailing this thread a bit, but what is the diffirence between a net in front of the lens vs. the back of the lens?
That's a good question. I wish I knew...
From what I can tell, basically part of the strength or heaviness of the effect depends on how loose you can get the weave to be by stretching it versus how much of the net material you are looking through, so focal length of the lens is a factor.
I suspect that the same piece of net material behaves more uniformly in strength if stretched over the back of a series of lenses rather than stretched on a frame in front of the lenses, where the apparent strength would be more affected by focal length & f-stop & distance focused. Also, the net would be less prone to veiling from stray light compared to a front-mounted net. Most people use the nets behind the lens these days (I don't know if Kaminski is using them in front of or behind the lens.)
One advantage of doing it in front of the lens on a frame is that it is easy to remove it or replace it with a glass filter, whereas most people fix netting to the back of the lens using something like snot tape, so tend to create a whole set of lenses pre-netted and would hesistate taking the net off and on all day because of the time factor, unless they had the budget for an extra set of lenses that could just remain netted for the whole show.
Posted 28 December 2005 - 10:22 PM
Examples of Classic Soft diffusion used by Kaminski in the same movie:
Posted 29 December 2005 - 02:23 AM
Posted 29 December 2005 - 03:21 AM
Edited by David Mullen, 29 December 2005 - 03:21 AM.
Posted 29 December 2005 - 06:03 AM
For this halation effect around bright lights, which do you reckon is the best filter (or nets), i.e. which fiter gives you the most halation with the least amount of softening? I really like this look. When I shoot stills with my Nikon from the 60s it comes build in becasue of the old glass, but with modern film lenses one can only achieve it with diffusion. However I do not like the reduction in sharpness that comes with that, so I'm curious what the best compromise would be.
Posted 29 December 2005 - 12:12 PM
Otherwise, the only way to get halation but NO diffusion would be digitally, applying a halated image over a sharp one in post.
You'd think the Fog Filter would be better than the ProMist for adding halation with less softening, but unfortunately the design of the Fog Filter tends to slightly de-focus the image. Some might use a LowCon instead. I'm curious to test the lightest Fog filter (#1/8?) for a movie.
I'm also sort of intrigued by the odd halation effects of using the lightest grade of the new Tiffen Smoque filter, which reminds me of a Double-Fog crossed with an UltraCon with minimal softening effects. The halation though is less contained to just the light area. But the #1 Smoque doesn't seem to soften as much as a ProMist.
Lately I've been using the #1 GlimmerGlass because I think it's slightly less strong than a #1/8 ProMist. It also has a cooler cast to the halation. Fogs have a much bluer halation than ProMists, which are neutral.
Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:27 AM
Posted 30 December 2005 - 10:56 AM
If one is shooting black and white, since that filmstock has no antihalation backing if I'm not mistaken, a reflective pressure plate would create halation as well, wouldn't it?
Yes, many years ago I had a problem with strange marks on Gev 553 in highlight areas. It turned out to be the pressure plate had some silver marks where the black had worn away!
Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:14 PM
B&W stocks do have an anti-halation layer, but it does not involve rem-jet and I guess it's not quite as effective, but it does provide some degree of anti-halation.