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My Own Anamorphic Package


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#1 JP Creatives

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 09:23 PM

Hello everyone, this is my first post. Moving on...

I am looking to buy my own 35 package, Anamorphic preferably for very little money. The Konvas 2m seems like an option. I am also interested in getting the Lomos anamorphic Lenses.

Basically, I have looked up and down these forums and many people discuss owning a Konvas or an Arri 2c. I have some good places for a Konvas, but that's about it. Finding the Lomos anamorphics or how much they even go for is difficult. I also haven't come across an Arri 2c for sale (how much does it cost?). I was wondering how easy it was to shoot anamorphic on the Arri 2c as well.

Plain and simple it doesn't have to be these cameras or the Lomos. I just want my own 35mm package that will function, last for a bit, a registration pin is a plus, I am not too concerned about how loud...and I would love for it to be anamorphic. I am in love with scope. I dream about scope. I dream in scope. I must shoot it myself before I go insane.

Any advice about where to look. Ebay is a given, but it is in a bit of a drought besides Konvases (Or is it Konvi int he plural form?).

Anything would help.

Thanks

JP
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#2 Tomasz Augustynek

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 03:48 AM

Hi,

I share your feelings about scope. All movies should be screened in this format, in my opinion :)

I was using Konvas and Lomo anamorphics a lot. It's a nice tool, however I must warn you that they can turn your shoot into nightmare, as well.
There are two important things:
Lomo lenses are rated 1,4 (!) but never go below 5,6! Otherwise forget sharpness.
Loading a mag is very tricky and tiny mistake will result having a "stock salad" in your camera.

If you are aware of these problems shooting with Konvas will be certainly an adventure and you may expect outstanding results.

The best place to buy Konvas is still Ukraine and St. Petersburg for Lomos. Curently, I don't have any contacts, but I remember you could buy new Konvas in Kiev for 1500$, including set of prime spherical lenses.
Lomo anamorphics use to be available in St. Petersburg, but they were much more expensive than the camera.
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#3 Adam Paul

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:13 AM

Lomo lenses are rated 1,4 (!) but never go below 5,6! Otherwise forget sharpness.



Is this also true for the slower lenses, like the f2s? I heard the faster lenses are not as sharp as the slower ones. F5.6 is nearly useless if shooting at night with limited light. If Lomos are really just sharp at f5.6 and down, maybe my friend was really right, and Nikon still primes will get me more quality. I know you can shoot with an f1.4 50mm Nikon at f2 and it looks very sharp. But it?s hard to believe a still lens would be better than a real cine lens for motion picture work. What gives?
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#4 Nate Downes

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:25 AM

I run my Lomo at f2 and it is as sharp as can be. Depends greatly on the particular Lomo lens itself. Some years and models are better than others.
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#5 JP Creatives

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 06:29 AM

Lomo lenses are rated 1,4 (!) but never go below 5,6! Otherwise forget sharpness.
Loading a mag is very tricky and tiny mistake will result having a "stock salad" in your camera.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hmmm...

Well this is somewhat ridiculous if it is true (the 5.6 part that is), but if you speak from experience I suppose it is. Does anyone know if there are other affordable anamorphic lenses out there?

I've also hear these lenses are just the same as a more expensive western lens and great glass is great glass. I really don't know what to believe. Still though, for 5000 it seems like someone could actually acquire an anamorphic camera package of some kind.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

JP
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#6 Rolfe Klement

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 07:15 AM

One of the big issues with using anamorphic on cheaper 35mm cameras is camera focus | frame issues in the viewfinder.

The viewfinders on the 2C and I assume on the Konvas are their weakest points. Seeing focus and getting anamorphic adaptors is always hard and expensive (last anamorphic view finder adaptor I saw was over $2000 and no price negotiation available)

A 2C viewfinder stopped down to T5.6 with a good GG and even one filter is going to get pretty dark - so you are going to wind up shooting ASA 400 a lot and everyone wants the 500 stocks...

I was going to shoot a MV on anamorphic lenses but without using an anamorphic attachment on the camera viewfinder but rather using an electronic desqueezer switchbox for the Video assist - so plug the video assist (and a good one like the XC555P) straight into a big screen with cranked up grain with the desqueezer black box and use that to pull focus and frame. Apparently these are available easily - I haven't seen one yet though

Another option would be to get superspeed primes and a rear element adaptor - then you have the best of both worlds - but they (good rear adaptors) are quite expensive and require time to set correctly

Call Ken Rich at http://www.anamorphic.biz/ - he will be able to give some starting points

The other option is to rent them when need be - the Cooke Xtal express look great and are available both form JDC and Panavision in PL mount in the UK - not sure about the US. They were used on "The Interpreter"

But on a positive note go ahead and shoot, shoot ,shoot - listening to naysayers never got a movie made and anamorphic experience is a huge plus for any CV or Reel

thanks

Rolfe
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#7 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 08:01 AM

Konvases are good, sturdy little cameras. And for the price they're hard to beat. Keep in mind this:

1. The mags are tricky to load unless you've practiced a lot. But once you've mastered that they're quick change and can be swapped faster than any 35mm camera (even the Aaton 35III).

2. The viewfinder is crap. The image is dark as hell because the light has to go through an unnecessary prism. When I had mine I had plans to replace the prism with mirrors, but never got around to it.

3. Add the anamorphic viewfinder and the image goes even darker. Not only that, the VF is now fixed and can't be moved. This means you have to operate in a very uncomfortable positions at any angle and height except when the camera is at eye level.

4. Flange Focal distance is an issue as the mount and the front of the camera has to be removed to access the movement. This introduces the possibility of FF problems if the screws are not tightened correctly.

5. The crystal motor that drive the camera can sometimes be hard to get. Tobin Cinema Systems used to do conversions of the old wild motors, but have now stopped, I think. Therefore, get one with a crystal motor unless you're sure you can live with a wild one.

6. No reg pin on the Konvas, but the 2C doesn't have one either, so. For the moderate speeds they're run at they're stable enough.

As for the Lomo lenses there are two different models - the square ones and the newer round ones. The older square ones are cheap as hell to get - probably around $250 a piece. They're good enough and produce some nice images, but heavy focus racking should be avoided since they breathe a lot. The square ones are almost impossible to rebuild to a PL mount unless you completely rehouse them.

The newer round Lomo's are world class. They're also much more expensive. Easy to rebuild to PL. Very good image quality - with a nice set I'd argue you could rival anything with them.

Check Ebay for all the above - there's an abundance of Konvas and Lomo's there to be had.
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#8 Joseph White

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 04:16 PM

"I was going to shoot a MV on anamorphic lenses but without using an anamorphic attachment on the camera viewfinder but rather using an electronic desqueezer switchbox for the Video assist - so plug the video assist (and a good one like the XC555P) straight into a big screen with cranked up grain with the desqueezer black box and use that to pull focus and frame. Apparently these are available easily - I haven't seen one yet though"

couldn't agree more with this approach - i shot a longform short on Clairmont Anamorphics (old converted cooke's, i believe) and an arri BL4-s which had no anamorphic viewfinder without getting a Moviecam extension eyepiece with an anamorphic converter (big pain and not cheap/not something clairmont was stoked about). We just ran the tap into a sony combo 8" monitor with a "normal/anamorphic" switch on the back and i would operate unsqueezed and found it to be fine - i;d just make sure i watched playback afterwards if i was concerned about composition.

a lot of operators i know actually prefer to watch the image unsqueezed in the eyepiece solely to eliminate "ping pong eyes" where your eyes are constantly bouncing all over the 2.35:1 frame.

regardless, i'd say go for it - get a good old 2C and either rent PL mount anamorphics from a house like clairmont (who will gladly rent you the GG too) or hollywood camera (who will be happy to subrent the GG from clairmont), or get some great russian glass.

long live scope!
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#9 Adam Paul

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 07:15 PM

I run my Lomo at f2 and it is as sharp as can be.  Depends greatly on the particular Lomo lens itself.  Some years and models are better than others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Which Lomos are you taking about, anamorphic or the normal ones?
The lenses you run at f2, how fast are they? Does f2 means fully open here?
Do you mind giving the lenses specs, like focal length, speed, model etc? How old are your lenses? Thanks.
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#10 Christian Appelt

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 04:17 PM

My practical experience with Lomo anamorphics:

1. Square front prime lenses 35mm, 50mm, 80mm

They open up to about 2.5, and from shooting test charts, I have chosen to use them from 2.8-4 upwards only. Full open, they tend to get a little soft, but at 4 and above, I found image quality to be excellent for 1960s lens design.

2. Zoom 37-140/4.3 with anamorphic adapter Foton-A

Excellent sharpness at 5.6 and above, a bit softer at the frame edges wide open.
It is important to have the Foton-A adapter mounted with absolute precision in front of the zoom, some support bases allow some tilt and play. This will result in out-of-fosu areas at 37mm wide angle position.

I intend to buy another Foton-A to put it before a PL-mount zoom lens for a rental highspeed camera, I suspect the spherical zoom limits quality, not the anamorphic part.

I would like to buy one of the newer Russian zooms with rear adapter like it is offered on eBay for weeks, but the particular eBay seller is said to be not trustworthy.

VERY IMPORTANT:

1. Do not trust any focus markings on the lens barrel. Do test shots with every lens on every camera body you are going to use. When in doubt, use a focusing target (like a Siemens Star) printed on cardboard and focus by eye (always wide open and, with zooms, at longest focal length), I never had an out-of-focus shot again with this procedure.

2. Get a matte box and use it. Anamorphic lenses pick up strange reflexes and stray light easily, so keep it off the lens.

3. With square front Lomos, carry ND filters .6 and .9 when shooting outdoors. These primes apertures end at f11 (further closure would result in refraction and loss of sharpness), so you need ND filters to bring light levels down when shooting in bright sunlight - even when you're using 50ASA film. Zoom lenses will go to f16.



GOLDEN KONVAS RULE #1:

Don't expect to buy a camera and run it without problems. It needs service and attention, these are no brand new Arricams from the rental company's shelf. You are getting excellent quality for you money, but if you neglect any element (lens, body, especially magazines since they are part of the film channel), you are in trouble.
My Konvas (no register pin) beats any Arriflex IIC I ever worked with as far as steadiness is concerned.

Edited by Christian Appelt, 29 September 2005 - 04:26 PM.

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#11 Michael Maier

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:20 PM

I would like to buy one of the newer Russian zooms with rear adapter like it is offered on eBay for weeks, but the particular eBay seller is said to be not trustworthy.



Do you mind saying which seller you are talking about? It could help people who don't know about him.
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#12 Christian Appelt

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 08:04 AM

Well, I would not like to name people in a public forum that I have not dealt with personally, so I sent you a PM.
But anybody who watches anamorphic lenses on eBay will notice that some rather new lenses in a (cosmetically) good condition and at reasonable prices never sell - they are put up again and again at changing prices.
If you need first-hand statements, check with the buyers who gave the seller a negative feedback, or ask about him on the Smartgroups Konvas forum.


Do you mind saying which seller you are talking about? It could help people who don't know about him.


Edited by Christian Appelt, 05 October 2005 - 08:06 AM.

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#13 Paul Bruening

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 10:04 AM

I am so glad I'm shooting 2 perf spherical. Low light; rack focus; fewer hassles. Hooo daddy!
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#14 Jun Tang

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 12:47 AM

Hey,

I think this might be my first post. I'm in no way a experience camera op or DP. I'm a student learning. In fact, I am not familiar with using 35mm film. I've used 16mm.

This post is interesting because now with all the miniDV 35mm adapter, I'm looking to get 35mm lens.

I want to experiment using 35mm SLR lens and compare with Cine lens.

maybe my friend was really right, and Nikon still primes will get me more quality. I know you can shoot with an f1.4 50mm Nikon at f2 and it looks very sharp. But it?s hard to believe a still lens would be better than a real cine lens for motion picture work. What gives?


Correct me if I'm wrong...please do.

But SLR lens are known to have less sharpness then Cine lens right? Of course you can include Leica, Zeiss, Contax, which would be interesting. But in general terms...

The SLR projects an image on still 35mm which has a larger surface area...(I don't know the exact measuerments) than a motion picture 35mm.

The area of the 35mm motion picture is smaller (I don't have measurements...if someone knows, please list)
So do they composite for the smaller area with better optics on Cine lenses?

Or do I have the whole thing all wrong?
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#15 Liviu

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 04:11 PM

Hello,

I?m Liviu Marghidan and I?m a DP from Romania. I write you because I want to sell a ARRI 2C camera. It has 7 COOKE lenses, 18-100 mm, C mont, 2 mags 400 ft, 1 mag 200 ft, cable and his own bag. It also has an original wood tripod. The camera is well preserved. The price is E 2500. The usual evaluation of this package is around E 7000-9000. If you are interested, you can call me at 0040722304788 or email me at liviu_scharf@yahoo.com.
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#16 Anton Klima

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 03:48 PM

Well, I would not like to name people in a public forum that I have not dealt with personally, so I sent you a PM.
But anybody who watches anamorphic lenses on eBay will notice that some rather new lenses in a (cosmetically) good condition and at reasonable prices never sell - they are put up again and again at changing prices.
If you need first-hand statements, check with the buyers who gave the seller a negative feedback, or ask about him on the Smartgroups Konvas forum.



Hi Christian,

looks like you have lots of experience with Russian anamorphics.

As I own a set of square front LOMOs

and a Foton Zoom with Anamorphic Attachment,

and still buying lenses,

it would be great for me to learn about this specific sellers name.

Maybe we can exchange some pros and cons of lens dealers there.

regards
Anton
klim666@aol.com
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#17 Daniel Stigler

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 09:51 AM

This post is interesting because now with all the miniDV 35mm adapter, I'm looking to get 35mm lens.

I want to experiment using 35mm SLR lens and compare with Cine lens.



I did a low budget shooting this year with Nikon lenses on a mini35 adapter. SLR lenses are a pain in the ass when it comes to pulling focus. After day 1 the DP was sick of the breathing, so we switched to Cookes. What also made my job a lot easier... :rolleyes:
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#18 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 12:29 PM

I was using Konvas and Lomo anamorphics a lot. It's a nice tool, however I must warn you that they can turn your shoot into nightmare, as well.
There are two important things:
Lomo lenses are rated 1,4 (!) but never go below 5,6! Otherwise forget sharpness.
Loading a mag is very tricky and tiny mistake will result having a "stock salad" in your camera.

I wish not confirm this idea.
Any cine camera and lense need adjust and test.
The secial theme- adjusting of anamoprhic lens.
teh anamoprhic lens high precision optical and mechanical parts of two opticalsystem :spherical and anamoprhic compoennets and this systems must be adjust separately and in common.
If you have not sharpness on open aperture, need check flange focal distannce of camera and lens and checl adjust of components of lens.
I repair many anamoprhic lenses and can send images from lens with open aperture. this images have good sharpness because lenses adjusted.

The any russian crew at time of USSR included camera mechanic and optical mechanic.

About loading a magazines, the Konvas camera have great design of magazine and magazine will fork very good and you will not have " stock salad" if :
-the camera serviced adjusted
- the magazine serviced, adjusted
- the film load on magazine correct
- the magazine set on camera correct too.
This is very easy procedure and Konvas can forgive many, but, any equipments wish correct use.
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