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my first 16 mm camera wich??


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#1 DaNiElE BeLArDo

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 02:38 PM

hi guys! i d like to buy my first 16 mm camera ..

which one of this?

arriflex 16 s with schneider/zeiss

beaulieu r16 with angenieux 12 120

or bolex h16 rex4/5 with kern switar..

tell me please the differences in terms of optical quality between kern and schneider..

thanks
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#2 Nate Downes

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 09:24 PM

The arriflex is the best one out of them all.
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#3 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 10:52 PM

I have an Arriflex S so I guess I'm biased. Your lenses might be really old though (mine are!) so make sure that they are in good shape and very clean (mine aren't! :-(). Also, have fun figuring out a decent battery setup, I am still not sure how to rig mine. I plan to give it an extensive cleaning soon, not a total overhaul but close. You know, paint flames on the side and stuff. Just kidding about that last part. Go for the Arri but realize you may end up hunting for parts and think real hard about how much you want to spend; it can get expensive.
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#4 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 12:50 AM

hi guys! i d like to buy my first 16 mm camera ..

which one of this?

arriflex 16 s with schneider/zeiss

beaulieu r16 with angenieux 12 120

or bolex h16 rex4/5 with kern switar..

tell me please the differences in terms of optical quality between kern and schneider..

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Go for the Arri SR
Why buy an old camera like S?
Have some patience and collect more money, unless you want the camera as a vintage collector.
It will be a pain to get things workin and u can get a lot of trouble with turret and lenses.
Sorry for beeing so bossy, it's just that for this days you can get good prices for SR cameras.
U can still shoot S16 but use the 16mm frame.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#5 Steven Budden

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 08:59 AM

Depends on what you will be using it for. For instance, I'm going backpacking this weekend for three days in Big Sur, CA and bringing my bolex RX4 along. I couldn't bring an arri.

Steven
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#6 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 10:45 AM

Depends on what you will be using it for. For instance, I'm going backpacking this weekend for three days in Big Sur, CA and bringing my bolex RX4 along. I couldn't bring an arri.

Steven

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sorry I was just beeing proffesional, didn't knew that u shoot your holidays on 16mm
Dimitrios Koukas
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#7 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 02:27 PM

hmm, exactly what "professional" application would one consider buying an arri s for? ;-)

/matt
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#8 A.Oliver

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 03:25 PM

Hi, owning an arri st and once owning 3 different R16s, i too am biased, consider the arri st first. Buy the st with the bayonet mount and a 12v fixed speed motor. Easier to rig a 12v battery up rather than an 8v one. Arri GB can still service st, some parts are a problem i believe, but the st hardly (in fact never) ever goes wrong. Shneider primes are very good.
Beaulieu R16 is a compact camera, easy to use, angenieux 12-120 big lens on a small c-mount, very difficult to pull focus on full zoom without wobble, due to the small c-mount. I have only ever used a 12-120 lens on an R16, the lens went very soft around t2.5-t4, forget the R16 auto exposure, R16 is a good run and gun camera.
I can only comment on a bolex H8 RX, which is similiar to the 16mm model, viewfinder not as good as the arri, horrible bolt on electric motor. But fantastic optics, switar primes are very sharp.
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#9 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 03:38 PM

hmm, exactly what "professional" application would one consider buying an arri s for? ;-)

/matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mattias I said go for the SR,wich means SILENT REFLEX and any of the three.Read better before you attack me.
Like the proffesionals that make movies in the old days, or you are ignoring that there was good cinema in the old days? And by the way, I don't want u to think that I have a problem with small cameras or old cameras, I have used bollex for time lapse effects or animation work, it's just I am suggesting a camera with better lens options here.
That's all. Turret cameras are also difficult to balance them for handheld shots, cause most of them are nose weighted.
Some Arri SR's have a mod as S16 camera's and u can even do a blow up to 35mm and get a good screenning.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#10 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:30 AM

Mattias I said go for the SR,wich means SILENT REFLEX and any of the three.Read better before you  attack me.

i know what *you* said, but did you completely miss what he *asked* for? as for attacking, you gotta be kidding me? it was a joke.

/matt
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#11 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:38 PM

Well jeez you guys, what's wrong with you? When *I* go on vacation I rent out the Panaflex Millenium package! Come on, step it up a notch! :P

I should have mentioned that I'm a collector and I enjoy fixing things... hence the 53-year old dinosaur, aka the Arriflex S, chillin in my living room right now. It is really all a matter of personal preference.
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#12 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:43 PM

i know what *you* said, but did you completely miss what he *asked* for? as for attacking, you gotta be kidding me? it was a joke.

/matt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Between the three I would suggest the Bolex, and some bolex with no crystal at all.You know the one with the wind up thing...
It's good for animation and still photography.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#13 santo

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 02:07 PM

Could anyone tell me what the deal is with the Arriflex and its lubrication? It appears that's a big diference between the choices as the Arriflexes seem to require special lube and more regular maintanence. The trade off in their favour being pin-registered amazingly stable images and self-blimped models you can shoot synch sound with. Sort of puts the Bolexes and Beaulieus in a different capability category, though I think they're pretty cool.

I've been considering picking up an Arri myself recently, but would like to know what I'm in for with regards to maintenance. Is it a camera to send once a year for service or is actually shooting time what needs to be considered as the guide?

Current prices on regular 16 models makes them very much in the running as a first 16mm camera I'd actually own rather than rent.

Edited by santo, 25 September 2005 - 02:10 PM.

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#14 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 02:23 PM

Could anyone tell me what the deal is with the Arriflex and its lubrication? It appears that's a big diference between the choices as the Arriflexes seem to require special lube and more regular maintanence. The trade off in their favour being pin-registered amazingly stable images and self-blimped models you can shoot synch sound with. Sort of puts the Bolexes and Beaulieus in a different capability category, though I think they're pretty cool.

I've been considering picking up an Arri myself recently, but would like to know what I'm in for with regards to maintenance. Is it a camera to send once a year for service or is actually shooting time what needs to be considered as the guide?

Current prices on regular 16 models makes them very much in the running as a first 16mm camera I'd actually own rather than rent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If u want a standart 16mm silent camera, u can go also for Eclair NPR, it's in terms of maintenance ''free of''. Also Aaton XTR.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#15 Charles Pickel

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 08:56 PM

[quote name='santo' date='Sep 25 2005, 12:07 PM']
Could anyone tell me what the deal is with the Arriflex and its lubrication? It appears that's a big diference between the choices as the Arriflexes seem to require special lube and more regular maintanence. .......


Big subject, small space to answer in !. Short story long: All motion picture cameras AND lenses should receive regular scheduled maintenance, which includes (but is not limited to) lubrication. Frequency of maint. is a matter of judgement and experience, based on how much use, and other considerations (was the gear dropped ? did you go to an ocean beach in a full gale ?).

If the equipment gets infrequent use (a few thousand feet every few months), it may be prudent to go several years between minor overhauls. If use is heavy and routine, like a rental camera, annual overhauls (or more) are mandatory. Idleness is no guarentee that the camera is staying in top form either. Lubricants dry out and become "waxy", moisture and condensation come and go. plolonged sealed storage can be pretty hard on cameras and lenses - great environment for mold and mildew to grow, batteries go flat. Regular, light use is better than none.

The job should be done by a qualified technician. Arriflex and Aaton both have factory authorized shops in New York and Burbank, CA. But, independent techs
also exist and some of them do superior work. Generally speaking, there are more trustworthy independent Arri techs than Aaton techs. Shop around, speak with owners. The best ones will give you minor maintenance pointers. Good luck.
Charles Pickel
Serious Gear Co.
Seattle
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#16 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:57 PM

I know he's lurking on here somewhere but even if he wasn't, I'd still mention him- Nathan from Abel Cine has helped me out some with my camera. (Thank you by the way!) So maybe you should talk to him. Also, I should probably point out that regular maintenance is a part of owning ANYTHING, providing you want it to last. Maybe your best bet is learning how to do some of the basics yourself, that's pretty much what I am trying to do. But then again, I like this stuff because I am a big camera nerd. :P Good luck!
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