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Fuji 250D


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#1 Ben Schwartz

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 02:29 PM

I recently shot a car dealership commercial with 8662, and encountered a curious problem. Much to my chagrin, the dealer insisted on putting a black car front and center with the talent because it was his most expensive and fancy model. Needless to say, the talent was wearing white. For a number of reasons I'll skip mentioning, I was unable to get a sufficient amount of light on to the car, and it ended up 2 1/2 to 3 stops below key. After getting the film back, the blacks in the car were milky but still okay - I had rated the film at 160. But in the specular highlights on the car, particularly the chrome bumper, there was a strong magenta cast.

Has anyone experienced this before? Is it a characteristic of this particular stock or all Fuji stocks?
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 03:48 PM

If you rated the film at 160 ASA it was not underexposed -- I mean, a black car would be under 18% gray anyway.

I've never seen such a problem as you describe. Almost sounds more like a lens artifact (Cooke S4's, for example, tend to create a red afterimage on chrome), unless your telecine was not properly set-up for Fuji's color mask and the colorist simply didn't balance his highlights & shadows properly.

Or it was old stock that somehow went bad, but usually what you see are blue-ish blacks and pinkish highlights.
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#3 Joseph White

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 04:59 PM

yeah this definitely sounds odd and something that might be a result of the telecine not being set up properly. i've shot really dark cars and trains on dark old track on the reala 500d and have never had that problem so i'm guessing it isn't a fuji problem per se. i wasn't using s4's as mr. mullen suggests as a potential problem (all were shot with zeiss glass), but i didn't find anything in the magenta range in the highlights - and these were shot on very sunny days.

and seeing as how you overxposed in shooting, i'd imagine it wouldn't naturally go in that direction. how hot were the highlights in the chrome? even if they were nuclear i can't imagine that they'd go into that color range.

interesting problem though and definitely food for thought. hope it works out for you!
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#4 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 09:25 AM

If the low lights and main color were greenish, may be after correcting at the timing then the highlights may get a bit magenta ?

How was done the timing ?
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#5 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 09:59 AM

If the specular highlights were really "hot", could it have been some sort of halation effect? Could you post an image?
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#6 Sam Wells

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 11:26 AM

The black car was 2.5 to 3 under key incident ?

Honestly incident reading alone means little with "sheet metal" unless it was a very flat black, not likely with "fancy and expensive"

But the specular kicks were magenta ?

It's a tough situation with the model in white but actually a black car need not be hard to light. I'm a little surprised you got milky blacks unless you had no spread on the cars lighting.

Did you supervise this transfer ? If not you need to see it yourself on telecine IMO.

-Sam
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#7 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:17 PM

The black car was 2.5 to 3 under key incident ?

Honestly incident reading alone means little with "sheet metal" unless it was a very flat black, not likely with "fancy and expensive"

But the specular kicks were magenta ?

It's a tough situation with the model in white but actually a black car need not be hard to light. I'm a little surprised you got milky blacks unless you had no spread on the cars lighting.

Did you supervise this transfer ? If not you need to see it yourself on telecine IMO.

-Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I pretty much agree with David here for this effect.
Is it like there is magenta in the midtones somehow?
This has to do with knee colour correction.or the rest that David mentioned
Dimitrios Koukas
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#8 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:28 PM

No green light.  Just a mix of windowlight and HMIs.

Also no budget for supervised transfer...it was a best light.  There's nothing I can do about it at this point, but I was just hoping to figure out what happened for future work.

As soon as I get the footage back from the client, I will post a still frame.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Another thing that u can do to see if it is your negative, or the telecine, is just to check the negative itself, with a magnifying loop or in a clear viewer of some short.
If you see green colour at the specific place, then it is the negative stock or the lens,If not , it's the telecine.
I have had a similar problem with motored escalators, and together with the follow focus there was a magentaish line that was following.That was a lens problem (I was using century's low angle prism, that did it.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#9 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 07:59 PM

No green light. Just a mix of windowlight and HMIs.


Did you color meter the HMI ? mind the eventual CC ? Sometimes they get some greenish cast that one can only figure out by color metering and correct with minus green...
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#10 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 08:07 PM

If not you need to see it yourself on telecine IMO.


IMO ? I must observe ?

thx
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#11 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 08:15 PM

IMO ? I must observe ?

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"In My Opinion" also seen as IMHO - "In My Humble Opintion" and of course B) IMNSHO - "In My Not So Humble Opinion"
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#12 Mike Williamson

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 08:16 PM

I used to send work to a lab for telecine transfer where the highlights often came back with a magenta cast to them, certainly with Fuji stocks but I believe also with some of the Kodak stuff I shot. Did you go to Alpha Cine in Seattle by any chance?
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#13 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 08:26 PM

"In My Opinion" also seen as IMHO - "In My Humble Opintion" and of course  B) IMNSHO - "In My Not So Humble Opinion"

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thx
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#14 Ben Schwartz

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 08:24 AM

I used to send work to a lab for telecine transfer where the highlights often came back with a magenta cast to them, certainly with Fuji stocks but I believe also with some of the Kodak stuff I shot.  Did you go to Alpha Cine in Seattle by any chance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No...Modern in Philly.

The HMIs were checked with a color meter and CC'd.
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#15 Sam Wells

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 01:41 PM

No...Modern in Philly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Did you talk on the phone to Rob (if he did the transfer) ? What did he say ?

His work for me has been absolutely first rate. (admittedly only supervised, only Kodak if that matters which it should not)

Maybe there is a flare issue, possibly somewhat hard to isolate unless seriously getting into whatever the Pogle equivalent of kilovectors is.

-Sam
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#16 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 01:48 PM

Another thing that u can do to see if it is your negative, or the telecine, is just to check the negative itself, with a magnifying loop or in a clear viewer of some short.
If you see green colour at the specific place, then it is the negative stock or the lens,If not , it's the telecine.
Dimitrios Koukas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I agree, if you have access to the negative itself, look at it on a light table under magnification. If the highlight glints have a cyan-green coloration, the issue is the film or exposure. If the highlight glints are neutral against the orange mask of the negative, it may be in the transfer.
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#17 Ben Schwartz

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 03:04 PM

Did you talk on the phone to Rob (if he did the transfer) ?  What did he say ?

His work for me has been absolutely first rate. 

-Sam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You're right, the folks there are great. I'm thinking it was a negative issue...I'm gonna go check it out there as soon as I have the chance.
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