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DSR 450


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#1 Colin Angell

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:46 AM

Does anyone know how to set an individual White Balance value for each Filter wheel position?

Since Sony have eliminated the Colour Correction filter wheel in favour of Electronic White Balance it seems impossible to assign a different White Balance (preset) to the 4 ND positions.

I would like to replicate the settings on my DVW700 - filter wheel 1 = 3200k, Filter position 2 =4300k, position 3 = 6300 etc. The owner's manual (certainly the one supplied with the Camera here in the UK) is poorly written in some vital sections and some functions, the ND offset for example, is not explained at all- and this setting may be the one I need.

Hoping that somebody, perhaps in the US, has a greater depth of knowledge......!
Thanks,
Colin Angell
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#2 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 05:50 AM

Does anyone know how to set an individual White Balance value for each Filter wheel position?

Since Sony have eliminated the Colour Correction filter wheel in favour of Electronic White Balance it seems impossible to assign a different White Balance (preset) to the 4 ND positions.

I would like to replicate the settings on my DVW700 - filter wheel 1 = 3200k, Filter position 2 =4300k, position 3 = 6300 etc. The owner's manual (certainly the one supplied with the Camera here in the UK) is poorly written in some vital sections and some functions, the ND offset for example, is not explained at all- and this setting may be the one I need.

Hoping that somebody, perhaps in the US, has a greater depth of knowledge......!
Thanks,
Colin Angell


Collin,
All u have to do is to use the 2 white balance slots A and B.
For A (that u will do it a 4300 Kelvin preset) use filter position 1 (3200) and do a white balance with 1/2 CTB on your lens, using 3200 lighting.
This will get u near 4600 K.
Then change your filter to position 2, (5600K) light with daylight source and use the preset B slot on the white balance.Use the same filter on the lens.1/2CTB and white balance.
This will give you about 6300 K .
So u will have actually 4 white balance presets.
1. the filter 1 on preset position,
2. 4300K on slot A with filter 1 on,
3. 5600 preset position with filter 2,3 or 4 on and
4. 6300 K with filter 2,3 or 4 on and preset B slot.

Dimitrios Koukas

...maybe you will need to experiment a bit with the CTB u put on the lens, maybe it will be something more or less sometimes that u need to get the excact white balance.
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#3 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 06:08 AM

Colin,

I've had the opposite problem with the DSR450 of trying to get all the ND positions having the same white balance. If I'm understanding your needs correctly, you should be able to precisely set the WB for each ND setting via the PAINT menu. I don't own a DSR450, so I don't have one in front of me, but there is a page in this menu whuch allows you to manually input a Colour Temp. This setting will apply to whatever ND you are currently using. Once you've set the CT, stay in the menu, and spin the ND around to the next setting. The menu will now display the exact same page, but with the setting for that ND. Change that setting to your required CT, repeat until all 4 are set how you want.

I'm not sure how useful this will be, as the different CT settings will still have ND built into them, but this is the way I would do it.

Another thread on the same subject, I believe:

www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=8854

Edited by Stuart Brereton, 01 October 2005 - 06:13 AM.

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#4 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 06:16 AM

Colin,

I've had the opposite problem with the DSR450 of trying to get all the ND positions having the same white balance. If I'm understanding your needs correctly, you should be able to precisely set the WB for each ND setting via the PAINT menu. I don't own a DSR450, so I don't have one in front of me, but there is a page in this menu whuch allows you to manually input a Colour Temp. This setting will apply to whatever ND you are currently using. Once you've set the CT, stay in the menu, and spin the ND around to the next setting. The menu will now display the exact same page, but with the setting for that ND. Change that setting to your required CT, repeat until all 4 are set how you want.

I'm not sure how useful this will be, as the different CT settings will still have ND built into them, but this is the way I would do it.



Stuart,
The DVW700 camera has a different filtering set-up than the DSR450, it has two wheels, one for the 3200 and 4300 and 6300 filters and one for ND's and star filter.
While DSR has only one wheel with 4 filters.
3200, 5600,5600 with ND and 5600 with heavier ND.
All this are in the same rotating disk.While DVW 700 has 2 separate rotating filter disks.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#5 Colin Angell

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:29 AM

Thanks for replies and advice, Stuart and Dimitrios but perhaps I didn't explain myself properly in the original posting.

What I want to achieve is a different PRESET White Balance for each filter(ND) position. I know that I could use A or B WB switch positions, but that is limiting functionality of the camera - not to mention leaving a redundant and potentially 'dangerous' Preset WB .
Owning both Digibeta and the DSR450, it would be convenient for instinctive speed of operation if I coould get the same setup for both.
Using the relevant page in the DSR menu, it is easy to set the PRESET WB value to whatever one wants, but this has to be the same for all 4 filter settings.
It is the 'ND offset' page in the menu that Sony fail to explain, when activated in my camera the display just lists the 4 ND filter positions with"YET" as the value! There is no explanation as to how one sets this value - this menu page might be the solution and I hope somebody out there knows how to adjust the ND offset.

Colin
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#6 Tim J Durham

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 08:43 AM

While DSR has only one wheel with 4 filters.
3200, 5600,5600 with ND and 5600 with heavier ND.

I believe this is incorrect. It's my understanding that Sony abandoned the color correction filters for the DSR 450. It now has only
3 ND filters plus 1 clear on the single filter wheel and all color correction is electronic. There was a thread not too long ago where this was detailed by Peter D.
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#7 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 09:59 AM

While DSR has only one wheel with 4 filters.
3200, 5600,5600 with ND and 5600 with heavier ND.
Dimitrios Koukas

This is incorrect, the filter wheel on the DSR450 only changes the ND setting. Colour temperature is changed via a small button above the filter wheel

What I want to achieve is a different PRESET White Balance for each filter(ND) position.
Using the relevant page in the DSR menu, it is easy to set the PRESET WB value to whatever one wants, but this has to be the same for all 4 filter settings.
Colin


Colin,
The method I described to you will allow you to have different setting for each ND, but you must make sure that the Filter Inhibit function in the Maintenance menu is set to allow this. Just like on a DVW700/790 this function ensures that all the ND colour temps are the same when activated.
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#8 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 11:21 AM

This is incorrect, the filter wheel on the DSR450 only changes the ND setting. Colour temperature is changed via a small button above the filter wheel

Thanks Stuart,
I ve just read the brochure that says excactly this.

Optical ND Filter and Electric CC Filter
Using the DSR-400 and DSR-450WS, optimum light
and color control is easily achieved using an optical
ND (Neutral Density) filter wheel and electronic Color
Correction. The use of electronic Color Correction
allows all filters in the filter wheel to be of the ND type,
providing the operator with greater flexibility in depthof-
field and exposure control.

I ve misunderstand the question.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#9 Mahedy

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:41 AM

Dear all.
I have only had my DSR 450 for a couple of months and I have a question.
I have noticed that when I manually white balance outdoors, my footage often looks very blue!
Any ideas what I may be doing wrong?
Many thanks
sparky <_<
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#10 Dave Hall

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Posted 17 October 2005 - 09:21 AM

I have noticed that when I manually white balance outdoors, my footage often looks very blue!
Any ideas what I may be doing wrong?


I always manually white balance outside in the shade. I prefer the results I get that way - the sunlit stuff becomes warmer, and the shady footage is white. You will notice with your own eyes that shade is bluer than sunlit areas. Your camera is giving you the truth!
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#11 Dudu Stoz

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 03:36 PM

maintenance menu page 9 turn "wht filter inh" off and you will beable to save different W.B. setting to each ND filter using the pereset color temp dial in the mainainance menu or the A/B color temp dial in the paint menu - hope this helps..

Edited by Dudu, 18 October 2005 - 03:37 PM.

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