Jump to content


Photo

7217 vs 7205 daylite shoot


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:08 PM

Hi, apart from the one stop difference, which is the better stock for daylight work, there will be no additional lighting. Plan to shoot in December in the uk. I am use to kodachrome stock, but i must plan for grubby light on the day. Which is the sharper of the two stocks, any other stock recommendations will be greatly received. Andy
  • 0

#2 Dimitrios Koukas

Dimitrios Koukas
  • Sustaining Members
  • 569 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Athens, Greece, London UK

Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:27 PM

Hi, apart from the one stop difference, which is the better stock for daylight work, there will be no additional lighting. Plan to shoot in December in the uk. I am use to kodachrome stock, but i must plan for grubby light on the day. Which is the sharper of the two stocks, any other stock recommendations will be greatly received. Andy


I would suggest 250D, unless you want the corrected daylight to tungsten look.7205 is a 200ASA tungsten film.
I have the feelling that the difference in grain would be unnoticeable.But the 7205 corrected for daylight (as u said) is one stop down, so it will limit your daytime in a way.
Dimitrios Koukas
  • 0

#3 Joseph White

Joseph White
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:35 PM

actually 7205 is vision2 250D, its 7217 thats vision2 tooT. i've had great results with the 05, great latitude - will definitely save you on those murky days. you'll have to drop in a good amount of nd during the day depending on what your desired stop is, but i shot 5205 up in mammoth mountain, california in bright sunlight with snow everywhere and it held everything (even with really contrasty clairmont anamorphics). i think its a vast improvement over the 72/5246 - which was a nice stock to begin with. if you want a super fine grain nice daylight stock, i'd say shoot 7212 and 85 it. you'll need more light obviously as you'll be rating at 64 asa, but on the days you can get away with it, it looks fantastic. shot 5212 pulled one stop on a bunch of day exteriors with hawk anamorphic primes and it just looked gorgeous.

anyhow, happy shooting!
  • 0

#4 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:36 PM

I would suggest 250D, unless you want the corrected daylight to tungsten look.7205 is a 200ASA tungsten film.
I have the feelling that the difference in grain would be unnoticeable.But the 7205 corrected for daylight (as u said) is one stop down, so it will limit your daytime in a way.
Dimitrios Koukas


Dimitrios,

Your getting confused 7205 is 250D. 7217 is 200T or 125 with 85 filter.

Question for K25rip is what stop do you intend to shoot at? I know its not that sunny in the UK but at 125 asa thats T22 in direct sunlight.

Stephen
  • 0

#5 Dimitrios Koukas

Dimitrios Koukas
  • Sustaining Members
  • 569 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Athens, Greece, London UK

Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:39 PM

Dimitrios,

Your getting confused 7205 is 250D. 7217 is 200T or 125 with 85 filter.

Question for K25rip is what stop do you intend to shoot at? I know its not that sunny in the UK but at 125 asa thats T22 in direct sunlight.

Stephen


Excactly and thanks!
Sorry k25rip, just switch the films that I was writing about the rest counts!
I ve had the same problem with vision 7279 and vision 7297 manytimes!
Dimitrios Koukas
  • 0

#6 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:29 PM

Thanks for the replies, if i am lucky enough and the sun shines will shoot either 50D, or ( vision2 50D if its available ) or 125T. I dont mind what stop i shoot at, will be looking for an exposure reading from T2-T8. Footage will be newsreel/run and gun, so not much time to think. Can i use an 85 filter and ND filter together?. Sorry for a stupid question, as i already mentioned, i 98% of the time shoot kodachrome. Thanks again
  • 0

#7 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for the replies, if i am lucky enough and the sun shines will shoot either 50D, or ( vision2 50D if its available ) or 125T. I dont mind what stop i shoot at, will be looking for an exposure reading from T2-T8. Footage will be newsreel/run and gun, so not much time to think. Can i use an 85 filter and ND filter together?. Sorry for a stupid question, as i already mentioned, i 98% of the time shoot kodachrome. Thanks again


Hi,

Yes you can use an 85 and an ND. To make life simple you can get combined filters. If light is low you can us an LLD instead of an 85 with no stop loss.

Stephen
  • 0

#8 Anthony Schilling

Anthony Schilling
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1053 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Portland, OR

Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:45 PM

The 250D is beautiful... and a full stop faster than corrected 200T
  • 0

#9 Andy Sparaco SOC

Andy Sparaco SOC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 203 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chicago and most airline lounges

Posted 04 October 2005 - 06:39 AM

Last week, shot a 10 minute "feature" here in chicago . First days shooting was in a park under a tree canopy-lots of open shade bright sun then overcast then bright sun a sunny day with lots of high cumulus . Used 7212 with an 85b added 1/3 stop so the effective exposure was 50 iso
The obvious choice 7245 which I luv for Kodachrome like saturation would have been too contrasty.

Exposures were 2.8/4/5.6 thru the course of the day @24fps. Later in the day pulled the 85 and went to a LL-D filter shot a grey card for color reference and exposed at 100 iso for a 1 stop pickup

Worked fine. Having shot a lot in GB my opinion is that 7205 might be a tad fast and require ND .

So 7212 (effective iso 50)or maybe since it will be December -7217(effective iso 100) with an 85 and/or LL-D is a good choice without a lot of ND

7201 from various reports would be ideal as a lower contrast fine grain Daylight stock. But it might not be available yet.

If you are renting a camera ask for a 85/85nd3/85nd6/85nd9 fllter set which combine color correction and ND
  • 0

#10 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 06 October 2005 - 01:16 PM

I answered in your double cross-posting. For daylight, 7205 is definitely a better choice than unfiltered 7217 or 7218 with an 85. Any time you use a color correcting filter, you are "throwing away" light, so you need faster (larger) grains to compensate. For example, a tungsten balance film needs larger blue-sensitive grains than a daylight balance film of the same exposure index.
  • 0

#11 Andy Sparaco SOC

Andy Sparaco SOC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 203 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chicago and most airline lounges

Posted 06 October 2005 - 02:22 PM

John:

Clarify for me-will 7205 deliver better grain then 7212/7217 with proper on camera color correction, when shot in daylight?

Also is 7245 more contrasty then 7212 with on camera color correction? My experience is 7245 has less grain (and more contrast)but 7212 is sharper- is that accurate?

As always thanks for the technical insight.
  • 0

#12 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 06 October 2005 - 02:47 PM

John:

Clarify for me-will 7205 deliver better grain then 7212/7217 with proper on camera color correction, when shot in daylight?

Also is 7245 more contrasty then 7212 with on camera color correction? My experience is 7245 has less grain (and more contrast)but 7212 is sharper- is that accurate?

As always thanks for the technical insight.


7205 should be slightly better for grain than 7217 --- as noted, it does not need to have as much blue speed as an equivalent tungsten balance film.

7245 has slightly more contrast and "snap" than the VISION2 films. It is still the finest grain motion picture negative film (at least until 7201 becomes available soon). 7212 would be the choice for best sharpness.
  • 0

#13 A.Oliver

A.Oliver
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Other
  • Croydon UK

Posted 06 October 2005 - 04:03 PM

Which will have the greater resolving power 7205 or 7217?
BTW, thank you everyone for your replies Andy

ps, will 7201 be available by December 1st in the UK?
  • 0

#14 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 07 October 2005 - 09:55 AM

Which will have the greater resolving power 7205 or 7217?
BTW, thank you everyone for your replies Andy

ps, will 7201 be available by December 1st in the UK?


7205 and 7217 are very similar for sharpness. You can interpret the MTF curves for yourself:

http://www.kodak.com...4.4.4.6.4&lc=en

http://www.kodak.com...4.4.4.8.4&lc=en

Kodak VISION2 50D Color Negative Film 7201 should be available very soon. The "launch" demos are being printed by our lab now.
  • 0


Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

Abel Cine

CineLab

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

Technodolly

Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Glidecam

Gamma Ray Digital Inc