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Pushing with 500t, which film?


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#1 Mitch Lusas

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:40 AM

We're working on a 16mm film in which we will be pushing the footage one stop. We will be using Kodak 500t. The movie calls for high contrast, saturated colors, and a gritty feel. The main character is an artist in New York. Reds, greens, and golds will be represented in her apartment.

Because of these goals we are leaning towards getting Kodak Vision 7279 500t. However, Kodak Vision2 7229 500t looks promising in its allowances for pushing. However, we are afraid that the muted colors and low contrast may play against our final image. What makes this worse is that we have only three weeks before shooting, and are running out of time for film tests.

These is also Kodak Vision2 7218 500t. Anyway, any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mitch Lusas
Virginia Beach, VA
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#2 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:29 PM

We're working on a 16mm film in which we will be pushing the footage one stop. We will be using Kodak 500t. The movie calls for high contrast, saturated colors, and a gritty feel. The main character is an artist in New York. Reds, greens, and golds will be represented in her apartment.

Because of these goals we are leaning towards getting Kodak Vision 7279 500t. However, Kodak Vision2 7229 500t looks promising in its allowances for pushing. However, we are afraid that the muted colors and low contrast may play against our final image. What makes this worse is that we have only three weeks before shooting, and are running out of time for film tests.

These is also Kodak Vision2 7218 500t. Anyway, any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mitch Lusas
Virginia Beach, VA


Don't use the expression 500T then. you can still order 7279 and push it 2/3rds for some grit.. It would be wise to sit in on your transfer if you can, and dial in the look you want with the colorist.
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#3 Mike Williamson

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 12:46 PM

7279 will be GRAINY if you push it. It has an interesting look, but make sure that it's the look you are going for because there will be grain. If that doesn't sound like what you want, 7218 would probably be a better choice for your project than 7229 or Fuji's Eterna, as '18 will be more saturated and contrasty than either. If this is for telecine, you will have a lot of room to bring in the right look, but try and sit in as Skratch suggests.

I believe 7279 has been discontinued recently, but you can probably find a few last rolls floating around Kodak or some of the more reputable resellers, for example Dr. Rawstock.
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 01:13 PM

I'd pick pushed 7218. Kodak Expression '29 and Fuji Eterna '73 would be more low-con & pastel than what you want, and '79 might get too grainy if pushing in 16mm, unless you want that much grain.

I wouldn't rate any 500 ASA stock with a 1-stop push at 1000 ASA either; I'd expose at 640 or 800 ASA for more density.
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#5 Joseph White

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 03:05 PM

yeah 7279 and 7274 have been discontinued, and i've pushed 7218 one stop and rated at 800asa as mr. mullen suggests and it looks FANTASTIC. i really think the stock was almost designed for pushing. ive pushed 5229 and 5284 (both of kodaks 500t "expression" stocks, the 84 having since been discontinued) and what you get is basically the look of 5279 - a little more contrasty, a little more saturation, but basically an 800 speed version of '79.

with 16mm, i'd say 7218 is THE way to go - and sit with your colorist. where are you transferring?
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#6 Mitch Lusas

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:29 PM

Thanks so much for your input. We found a couple places that still offer 7279, however your input has confirmed our suspicion that 7218 is the best way to go.

We will be having the film processed at Color Lab in Rockville, MD.

David and Joseph, you advise against rating 7218 at 1000 ASA. Why is that? After looking at the specs, it seems that 7218 would be able to push beyond a full stop and still have some play room. However, I have had no experience pushing this stock, and I am curious as to its effects.

Thanks again for your comments.

Mitch Lusas
Virginia Beach, VA
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#7 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:53 PM

Thanks so much for your input. We found a couple places that still offer 7279, however your input has confirmed our suspicion that 7218 is the best way to go.

We will be having the film processed at Color Lab in Rockville, MD.

David and Joseph, you advise against rating 7218 at 1000 ASA. Why is that? After looking at the specs, it seems that 7218 would be able to push beyond a full stop and still have some play room. However, I have had no experience pushing this stock, and I am curious as to its effects.

Thanks again for your comments.

Mitch Lusas
Virginia Beach, VA

I will suggest you to do a test before you go, and push it one but rate it 800.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 08:42 PM

You can push it more if you want -- test to see if you like the results.

It's just that a one-stop push at a lab does not necessarily mean exactly one-stop more density -- sometimes it falls a little short of that. So it's safer to ask the lab to push 500 ASA by one-stop but personally rate it a 800 ASA instead of 1000 ASA. That doesn't mean that you personally wouldn't like the results from rating it at 1000 ASA or higher. Or pushing by two stops, etc.

Just depends on what set of printer lights you want the pushed footage to print at.

Also depends on why you are pushing the film. If for more contrast and saturation, then rate it a little slower than the push would suggest to end up with a denser negative. If it's to gain more speed and you don't mind a little thinness to the negative, then it's not so important to get a denser negative.
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 01:11 PM

I agree with others that 7218 exposed at EI-800 or EI-640 and pushed one stop would likely give you the "look" you want. The 7229 pushes well, but is definitely a "softer" look.
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#10 Joseph White

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Posted 06 October 2005 - 01:18 PM

also, i just saw dailies from a super 16mm commercial spec shoot and we pushed 7217 one stop and rated normally (400asa) and decided to go a little harder with backlight and rims in general and the results were gorgeous. i pretty much attribute it to the vision2 system as '74 never looked this good pushed.
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