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WHAT IS THE TRUTH?


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#1 freddie bonfanti

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 07:19 PM

hi

i am about to shoot a graduation film on a SONY HVR Z1E. i perfectly know that this discussion has already taken place in this forum, but i am trying to find a definitive answer. the film is a short story taking place in the future, in a post apocaliptic world. both i and the director decided that we would use CINEMAFRAME 25 to photograph the short, to give obviously a more filmic look and to stick to the "filmic" narrative of the script. thats the reason why we got this camera, TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD, to avoid the student film look. but here lies a dilemma. the film look its given by a cheating camera effect which is not really shooting at 25p so i find it weird in a sense, it looks like an irreversible process in case we realise that the film look we got its just not right. should we shoot at 50i and then deinterlace or just stick with our idea? WHAT WOULD LOOK BETTER? a 25 fps in camera effect or a post production work of deinterlacing?did anyone test the camera?

note that we cant make any test as we havent got the camera yet, but please add your comment

thanks
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 07:38 PM

The camera creates a 25P look from 50i in a similar manner to post software solutions, so if you like the look of 25F mode in the camera, I'd go ahead and use it because you probably would get similar results doing it later.
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#3 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 08:59 PM

Hi,

The only other thing is if you are going for an SD result, then there's almost enough lines per field of the 50i to create a full-res 25p SD frame.

Still, I presume the in-camera deinterlace happens pre-compression, so it's probably the best option.

Phil
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#4 Michael Collier

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 03:28 PM

Hi,

The only other thing is if you are going for an SD result, then there's almost enough lines per field of the 50i to create a full-res 25p SD frame.

Still, I presume the in-camera deinterlace happens pre-compression, so it's probably the best option.

Phil


I'm currently using the same camera on a feature movie. I am using the 50p. Interlace just has no place in a movie and if you shoot with out it, that would be better for the image, and get you to see the deinterlaced version to make desicions off of.

The camera creates a 25P look from 50i in a similar manner to post software solutions, so if you like the look of 25F mode in the camera, I'd go ahead and use it because you probably would get similar results doing it later.


I know I have heard this about several other CCD cameras, but the camera in question is a CMOS sensor and isnt limited like a CCD (CCD transfer each pixel to the one beside it to read out and if my understanding is correct interlacing is nessicary due to bandwidth limitations and the noise created by a whole frame transfering pixel to pixel if a few pixels have been overexposed and begin to bloom. another limitation is CCDs 'rolling frame sinc' where not every pixel gets exposed at the exact same moment, so footage from 'progressive' out would look smeared with one horizontal line that would start at the top and work its way down, same reason you get a red line that scrolls down most times when you shoot a monitor)

You might be right though david. I know my GL1 does that, my roomates pany does it. Im just not sure about the new CMOS sensors. I know grass valleys cameras (viper and the cheaper infinities) output the entireframe all at once. the cinealtas do too i believe. (the dalsa camera outputs a 4k,2160 x 3840, 4:4:4 output and is able to achieve a true progressive from


Either way enjoy the shoot. control highlights carefully. its a dead ringer for video, the the camera does function remarkably well in the shadows. I just saw dailies from my shoot last night....it was like a DPs wet dream (i know all you purist will hate me) but with good lighting it almost looked like a frame of 16, but without grain. I cant wait to see what a 35mm filmout would look like.
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#5 Joshua Provost

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 05:39 PM

Federico,

See Adam Wilt's explanation of CineFrame mode. You throw away half your vertical resolution using this mode. You are better off shooting 50i and using an intelligent deinterlacer like DVFilm Maker. You can edit in 50i and run your final cut through the deinterlacer.

Josh
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