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#1 Carlos S. Carmona

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 11:26 PM

What cameras are being used in the production of today's music videos? I am leaning towards using the Panasonic Varicam, or Sony's F/900 3, both of course HD. I have the editing system that can do the post so I am safe there. Also, is it safe to use the consumer level Sony HD cameras, or even the Panasonic DVX 100?
Just to note, the music videos are of the rap genre, and the artists are going to try to get the videos aired on one of the several video channels (i.e. BET).

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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:43 AM

Most music videos are shot on film. Either 35mm or Super 16mm.

One of the reasons (besides that it looks better) is that you can do slow-motion and speed ramps.
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#3 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:59 AM

Most music videos are shot on film. Either 35mm or Super 16mm.

One of the reasons (besides that it looks better) is that you can do slow-motion and speed ramps.

Exactly. The 435 is the most popular music video camera for these very reasons.
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#4 Carlos S. Carmona

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 10:37 AM

Exactly. The 435 is the most popular music video camera for these very reasons.

So are you two telling me that Videos are going to stay with film forever, or will they too make the jump to HD, such as many shows on tv, and some films.
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#5 Tim Tyler

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 10:47 AM

The replies answered your question as to which cameras are being used for pro music videos these days.

Music videos are also shot on HD, DV and even Super-8, but the majority of the ones you see on MTV are 35mm and 16mm film. Slow motion and speed ramps can be simulated in post, and the Varicam does some slo-mo, but 35mm/16mm film cameras offer the most options for creating organic in-camera effects.
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#6 Brian Wells

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 01:10 PM

There are a growing number of music videos being shot on HD. But, these are not typically the ones produced by the major lables (hence, not the ones on TV). Actually, I have worked on two hip hop videos shot on the VariCam and honestly, neither one of them went anywhere. Both were financed by the artists themselves.

I don't know where these guys are coming up with the requisite 20 Grand to buy their own music videos when they only play local shows and lack any form of verifiable employment!

Also, is it safe to use the consumer level Sony HD cameras, or even the Panasonic DVX 100?"

The current Sawyer Brown video, "They Don't Understand" is a mix of DVX100 and Super8. So, yes, it is being done.
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#7 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:13 PM

So are you two telling me that Videos are going to stay with film forever, or will they too make the jump to HD, such as many shows on tv, and some films.

Neither Max or myself said that music video's will be film forever. I'm not Creskin....I can't predict the future. I DO know what most video's are shot on now, which is what my post was referring to. Honestly, I don't think the format will matter much (or not at all) in the decision by a network to air a video or not, so shoot on what works for you and your budget. Just doing the same thing as everyone else won't help your chances.
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#8 David Silverstein

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 06:57 PM

With the DVX100A camera using 24p mode you can simulate a film effect to a great extent. I think that camera is very suitable for a low budget music video.
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#9 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 25 October 2005 - 06:32 PM

24p is a good way to go but to me it doesn't look like film it still is video. I shot a music video over the summer using with the DVX-100 and I was very happy with the images that I got. I had a really good gaffer. Nevertheless 24p is good but the only way to get the film look is to shoot on film.
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#10 MrBuildersTea

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 04:57 PM

Hey guys

Just read this debate. Im about to shoot a rnb/hip hop video and the DOP is suggesting Varicam.
Its a small budget, 2 locations a bar and a club but is the Varicam the right camera for this set up?What about Sonys HDW750?We cant really afford Super 16mm beacuse I need to shoot a lot of coverage and will burn too much film.
The video will hit the Asian market and will play all over India without a doubt. I haven't worked with a Varicam before so am stressing. Do i really need to get into over and under cranking when it can be done in post?The Dop is thinking of using 35mm adaptors. What will this look achieve exactly. The video needs to look glossy, ofcourse im not going to get the Hype Williams feel but i am after those rich warm colours, that hyper real bubblegum pop feel. Is Varicam the camera for this?Thanks
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#11 Michael Nash

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:03 PM

The HDW-750 is interlaced only if I'm not mistaken, so you won't get that 24/25P film-like motion with it.

You bring up a good point that the video will be shown in different world markets, since that means different video standards. Standards conversions can always be done after the final cut is mastered, but you might want to choose a format and workflow that makes both NTSC and PAL output easy and with good quality.

Both the Sony F-900 and the Panasonic Varicam will allow both 24P and 25P capture, although those frames are recorded in different ways between the two cameras. One nice thing about the Varicam is that it's compatible with Final Cut Pro with relatively "stock" hardware. Pretty much any HD camera can give you rich colors either in-camera or augmented in post.

35mm lens adapters allow you to get a shallower depth field than 2/3" HD lenses used directly, as well as some of the optical nuances of particular 35mm lenses. But you lose at least 1 stop of light with most adapters, and it's one more piece of hardware on the camera to deal with.

The Varicam is certainly a good choice for this type of project, but not the only choice. But The 750... not so much.
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#12 Sean Azze

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 07:24 PM

Music videos are also shot on HD, DV and even Super-8, but the majority of the ones you see on MTV are 35mm and 16mm film. Slow motion and speed ramps can be simulated in post, and the Varicam does some slo-mo, but 35mm/16mm film cameras offer the most options for creating organic in-camera effects.


Panasonic's HVX200 can also be ramped up to 60fps. Pretty convincing considering it's video.

I don't know about hip hop, but there are a few rock and techno videos that have gotten away with being shot on standard mini-dv. Examples include Sum 41's Hell Song and Fatboy Slim's Praise You. Only thing is, these format's lent themselves to the low end concepts of the videos. If you're trying to pull off video for a music video that's meant to look slick and high end, people will know what you're trying to do and they will point at the screen and mock you (I'm assuming :P ).
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#13 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 07:40 PM

Music videos can be shot on whatever you desire.

Majority of big stars MV's are shot on film. 35mm.

Videos are shot electronicaly from HD, DV, D8, to analog 8mm, hi8, SVHS...
I'we seen an video partialy shot on webcams. Aired on MTV. On Alternative Nation thou. :)

It's all budget and artistic choice.


A German well known MV director Nikolay Georgiew /www.georgiew.de/index2.html]www.georgiew.de[/url]

has shot a video for U96 feat Ben titled "Vorbei" (you remember U96's top selling
world wide techno anthem "Das Boot"? ) with DVX100 and MovieTube, and some other cams.

Also Melanie C's "First Day of My Life" video (former Spice Girl) with HD (Varicam i think) and 35mm adapter.


You can watch the videos and the making of at this address:
www.313music.de/videos_auswahl.html


I read somewhere that for a The Black Eyed Peas video "Let?s Get It Started" a Cine SpeedCam, an high speed HD camera was used.


The french groovers Daft Punk, their "Robot Rock" video was totaly 70'-80" TV studio retro look. Interlaced, star filters, mushy picture color bleeding, ghosting, saticon tube artefacts, colored gells...
I got the feeling they didn't done it with high end camera and got the look in post. I think they used old TV Studio cameras and got the look. :)


So, go with what ever serves your video best.
For up to 60fps slo-mo the varicam will do just fine.


Best.

Igor
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#14 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 07:52 PM

Sorry, no direct "click" links.

The Insert Link function in this editor thoes not insert the URL command well. . At leats today.

Why?

Best

Igor Trajkovski
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#15 Keith Mottram

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:04 PM

The HDW-750 is interlaced only if I'm not mistaken, so you won't get that 24/25P film-like motion with it.


Michael,

You are mistaken on this one the hdw-750p is 25p or 50i.

Keith
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#16 Michael Nash

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:07 PM

Michael,

You are mistaken on this one the hdw-750p is 25p or 50i.

Keith


Interesting. Hence the "P" designation.

I wasn't aware of this model, perhaps because there seems to be only the 25P/50i model. Here in the US the only 750's are interlaced 60i, no 24P (that I'm aware of, anyway).

Not terribly surprising considering it would seem to be easier to create progressive or interlaced from a single frame rate. Not much demand for 30P here. Sony also introduced a 25P model of their SD IMX (was it?) camera awhile back, but no 24P at the time (they later combined technologies in the XDCAM line).

Anyway, good to know.
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#17 Barry Cheong

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:26 PM

Are music video's in 35mm typically shooting 3-perf?
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#18 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:34 PM

Are music video's in 35mm typically shooting 3-perf?


Sometimes, but mostly 4-perf on something like an Arri-435. 3-perf makes more sense when you're shooting a lot of footage, like for a narrative feature or TV series. Music videos tend to worry less about saving money on footage.
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#19 Chris Cooke

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:18 AM

Sometimes, but mostly 4-perf on something like an Arri-435. 3-perf makes more sense when you're shooting a lot of footage, like for a narrative feature or TV series. Music videos tend to worry less about saving money on footage.


Also, I've noticed that most music videos stick to the 1.33:1 (4x3) aspect ratio where a full frame 4-perf 35mm frame would make most sense.
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#20 Tim Vogel

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:17 PM

I have shot a couple music videos on the Canon XL2 in 24p. The look is awesome. I also tweaked all the configurations of the camera to get the look I wanted. Gamma, pedestal, knee, so forth. I then work it in FCP to polish it. It's not totally 35mm looking but it's close enough for the clients. A PL adaptor and running some Arri lenses would really make it stand out.
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