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#1 ivan delenda

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 06:03 AM

hi every one,,,

anyone shot with 28 mm ?
SM Eisenstein said it s the XTC lens,,,but practicly what do you think ?
thanks

ivan
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#2 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:09 AM

Use it all the time when I get the Zeiss High Speed T2.1's out. It's a nice focal length, especially on tracking shots - just right in balance between a wide and a normal. The 27mm from the newer Cooke/Zeiss/Panavision lenses is equally nice.
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#3 Patrick Neary

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:47 AM

Hi- Wes Anderson's "Bottle Rocket" was shot entirely with a 27mm lens (if I'm correctly remembering some article by somebody that i read somewhere!) and it gives the film a great, cohesive look perfect for the film.
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#4 ivan delenda

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 12:55 PM

thanks for that informations,,,but i am asking about the 28 and not 27 ...or you think they are the same ?
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#5 Jonathan Spear

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 01:27 PM

1mm, dude.
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#6 ivan delenda

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:15 PM

1mm, dude.



yeah 1 mm : ) , but isn't the 1mm that makes the difference ? not trying to make zee cool , but 24 fps is 1 frame before 25 fps , no ?
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#7 Max Jacoby

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 02:50 PM

Well if you ever get into a situation where you'd really need a 27mm instead of a 28mm, please let us know.
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#8 ivan delenda

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 04:34 PM

yeah of course i will let you know , , but until i decide wich lens i need buy , am trying to know from people who used both 27 and 28 to tell what do they think,,,
beside,am not sur you saw that text since it s not huge published,,but there as a filmmaker SM EISENSTEIN who wrote long long pages about the 27 and not the 28 ,,,
i am thankfull for TSM and Audiris, but people i am kind of stoned , 1mm is nothing tho, 1 stop will be nothing too, or one filter wont be important,,, and you know it s not true,,,



sorry ,,typing ; SM wrote about the 28 and not the 27,,,
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#9 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 08:53 PM

i am thankfull for TSM and Audiris, but people i am kind of stoned , 1mm is nothing tho, 1 stop will be nothing too, or one filter wont be important,,, and you know it s not true,,,

Uh, you're right about 1 filter or 1 stop, but not about 1mm. It's not the same thing as exposure or filtration, so there's no comparison between these things. Worrying about 1mm difference is going a bit far. If your main concern about a lens is whether it's a 27mm or 28mm, then you're worrying about the wrong things....and being WAY too literal.
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#10 Chris Keth

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:44 PM

I'd be extremely surprised if you can even see the difference between the two, without shooting footage with both on the same locked camera and side-by-sideing them.
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#11 ivan delenda

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:54 PM

not beeing too literal ,,,i am not DOP, i am a Director

yeah i know that 1 mm wont kill anyone,but to close,try to see it that way, 90° angle is not 91° ,,,1° i know , but go tell that to an architecte ,,,

of course,,, i ll make tests and compare the two and will tell you about it ,,,

of course,,, i ll make tests and compare the two and will tell you about it ,,,
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#12 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:56 AM

not beeing too literal ,,,i am not DOP, i am a Director

yeah i know that 1 mm wont kill anyone,but to close,try to see it that way, 90° angle is not 91° ,,,1° i know , but go tell that to an architecte ,,,

of course,,, i ll make tests and compare the two and will tell you about it ,,,

of course,,, i ll make tests and compare the two and will tell you about it ,,,


Ivan,
Eisenstein probabaly was using one 27mm lens that had optical distortions and one 28mm that had no optical distortions, or there probabaly wasn't any 28mm manufactured those days.
I believe that we are talking here about differenses for old cinematographers that cannot compare to the new ones.
And let me just tell you this.
Do you believe if Bethoven was born today, he will be composing music in a classical Piano?Or he would be a technology geek?
So either you are a genius and my humble mind cannot understand you, so I am sorry for this, or you are trying to find differences to things that don't have (except their physical optical characteristics) One inch more or back in the camera can get you the result of an 28 or 27mm.
Unless u are talking for an 28mm build up in 1914 and one 27mm that was made today.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#13 ivan delenda

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 06:10 AM

i am not a genius , i f not, i wont be here asking and re-asking questions,,,,
ok , for Bethoven,,if he s born today, he will be DJing with PlasiKman,,,,
so if i understand you well, there is no diff between 27 and 28 mm , unless if one is made before 1914 ,,,
thanks very much for the informations
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 02:54 PM

yeah of course i will let you know , , but until i decide wich lens i need buy , am trying to know from people who used both 27 and 28 to tell what do they think,,,
beside,am not sur you saw that text since it s not huge published,,but there as a filmmaker SM EISENSTEIN who wrote long long pages about the 27 and not the 28 ,,,
i am thankfull for TSM and Audiris, but people i am kind of stoned , 1mm is nothing tho, 1 stop will be nothing too, or one filter wont be important,,, and you know it s not true,,,
sorry ,,typing ; SM wrote about the 28 and not the 27,,,

---Instead of a 1mm difference, think of it as a 3.7% difference. It won't make a practical difference.
Plus the marked focal length on a lens is sometimes rounded to the nearest commonly used focal length. These days it's usually done on zooms.

When Eisenstein was writing, there was not the variety of formats that exist today.
& was he writing about academy aperture or silent aperture?
The difference between those two formats is greater than the 3.7%, more like 12 to 14%.
Say it was academy, then 28mm would be equivalent to 21mm in 1.85/1 format.
I'm basing that on height, which is the more critical dimension tha width.

The difference between 27mm and 28mm focal lenghth is insignificent.

---LV
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#15 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 04:59 PM

A bit off the subject....but Ivan, what's up with the comma's? Having comma's just dispersed randomely throughout your posts make them hard to read. Some periods and question marks would help.
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#16 Jonathan Spear

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 06:14 AM

Puff, puff, pass, Ivan!

;)
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#17 ivan delenda

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 09:03 AM

what do u mean by puf puf,,,,
see , films are not only technique !!!! and you Monsieur "puf puf " - as i guess - you know only about technique, and you think thats it !
go read some books and watch some films before puffpuffing please .
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#18 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 12:12 PM

beside,am not sur you saw that text since it s not huge published,,but there as a filmmaker SM EISENSTEIN who wrote long long pages about the 27 and not the 28 ,,,


28mm was, most probably, the shortest lens availiable to Eisenstein in the the mid30s USSR.

He was, no doubt, using a 25mm on the lend lease BNC used on 'ivan groznii'.

The point of the essay was teh use of wide angle and deep focus.

If he were still alive in the 50s when 18mm lens were developed, he would have been enthusiastic about that focal length.

---LV
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#19 Stephen Williams

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 01:11 PM

The difference between 27mm and 28mm focal lenghth is insignificent.

---LV


Hi,

If you actually test a 27mm lens it may well be more or less than 27.00 .

Sometimes in motion control I use a bellows focus. I only input one focus point at infinity, the focal length of the lens, and the front nodel point of the lens. The MoCo can then calculate the focus from 1:1 to infinity. I usually have to exeriment with the focal length +/- 1mm in 0.05mm steps to find the actual focal length!

I have seen lenses to differ by over 1 mm to what was written on the lens

Stephen Williams DoP

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#20 ivan delenda

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 05:56 PM

in El Greco y el Cine, SM wrote about Greco's point of view in "View of Toledo " and in " view of Toledo under the storm " in 16XX , ( this last is at the Metropolitan Museum - new york so TSM can visit). Greco painted the city of TOLEDO as if he shot with a 28 mm and not any other short .

i am sure that most of you know the 8mm and the 9,7mm ( only 1,7 mm dude !! ), and you are not waiting me to explain the differnce between those two lenses.

ivan


- not true is was the only available in USSR
- SM didnt shot with russian camera, at his time Russians didnt make any motion camera yet
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