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First 16mm camera


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#1 Tim Myers

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:26 AM

I know this is a rather common question but I'm interested nonetheless. I've been shooting DV for years and it's time to take the next step. What would be a good 16mm camera for a beginner? I have no experience with actual film, only DV. I realize they are quite different, but am a quick learner. I really like the KRASNOGORSK-3, but have been told I can only shoot silent films with it. Is this true? Is there a better 16mm camera to use for student films? I have a pretty good amount of money, and need sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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#2 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:28 AM

I know this is a rather common question but I'm interested nonetheless. I've been shooting DV for years and it's time to take the next step. What would be a good 16mm camera for a beginner? I have no experience with actual film, only DV. I realize they are quite different, but am a quick learner. I really like the KRASNOGORSK-3, but have been told I can only shoot silent films with it. Is this true? Is there a better 16mm camera to use for student films? I have a pretty good amount of money, and need sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Eclair NPR or ACL if you are going for 16mm, But would suggest an AAton too LTR or XTR for S16mm.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#3 John Mastrogiacomo

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:49 AM

Eclair NPR or ECL if you are going for 16mm, ..



I think you mean ACL instead of ECL. :)
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#4 Tim Myers

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:58 AM

Is it possible to film witht he K-3 but still have dialogue? I know the camer is horrendously noisy, but I was wondering if there are any ways around it.
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#5 David Sweetman

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:08 AM

Is it possible to film witht he K-3 but still have dialogue? I know the camer is horrendously noisy, but I was wondering if there are any ways around it.


Yeah, dub it. Roll the scene once on film and again on audio. Move the audio around to fit in post. You might get the Sergio Leone feel without it matching perfectly. I think the biggest problem with the K3 is that it is not pin registered. The video won't be completely solid; it will have a slight waving.
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#6 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:10 AM

I think you mean ACL instead of ECL. :)

Thank you,
I ve corrected it , yes I meant ACL.
Dimitrios Koukas :)
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#7 Tim Myers

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 03:27 AM

I guess it'd be easier for you guys to give reccomendations if I say how much my budget is. I'm able to spend up to $2,000 and I'd like to be able to record sound and possibly film one frame at a time. Thanks.
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#8 Nate Downes

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 06:32 AM

For $2000 you could get a nice Frezzolini, Auricon, CP-16, Scoopic, even an Eclair ACL. Each one has their own unique advantages and disadvantages.
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#9 Dominik Muench

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 06:41 AM

But would suggest an AAton too LTR or XTR for S16mm.
Dimitrios Koukas




hmmmm Aaton XTR....so yummmy :) I love that camera.
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#10 Max Lundberg

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:27 AM

I think the biggest problem with the K3 is that it is not pin registered.

It's not all about that, Aaton is not pin registered either.
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#11 Tim Myers

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 04:14 PM

The more research I do and the more people I talk to, the CP-16 and Arriflex s16 continually come up. What are your opinions on these? I'm particuarly interested in the CP-16.
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#12 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 07:30 PM

I'm able to spend up to $2,000 and I'd like to be able to record sound and possibly film one frame at a time. Thanks.


you do understand that when you shoot film, that sound is recorded on another device, and synced to the pictures in post-production. Traditional was to use a special motor on the camera, and a special tape recorder with an extra track which kept a sample of the line frequency so that you could put the sound on Mag Film frame accurate., although Computer recording is also used.
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#13 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 06:20 AM

The more research I do and the more people I talk to, the CP-16 and Arriflex s16 continually come up. What are your opinions on these? I'm particuarly interested in the CP-16.

Cinema Products camera is standard 16mm with magnetic sound.
It was made for news gathering.Cp-R designates a model that uses lenses fitted with a CP mount and a built in reflex viewfinder.
16 and 16A designates a model that uses C lens mounts and uses lenses fitted with off-set viewfinders particullary the Angenieux 12-120 reflex zoom.
/A desginates the model that has a built in magnetic recording module (includes magnetic heads, amplifier,dual low impendance microphone inputs auxiliary mixer inputs, etc)
/DS means double system sound mechanism.I am not sure if this means magnetic or/and optical recording.
Any experienced users can help into this?
I am not sure if you can still find 16mm magnetic stock.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#14 Nate Downes

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 07:51 AM

/DS means double system sound mechanism.I am not sure if this means magnetic or/and optical recording.
Any experienced users can help into this?
I am not sure if you can still find 16mm magnetic stock.
Dimitrios Koukas


No, DS means it's crystal-synch'd so you use a standard crystal recorder.

And no, magnetic stock has gone the way of the dinosaur.

If you wanted to record sound on your film, get an Auricon with an optical head.
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#15 Chris Keth

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 03:30 PM

Funny thing a friend of mine who collects cameras and taught film for a while just offered for "anyone who wants it" an old Auricon with an opticle head for free. I think you would have to pay shipping though and I think no lenses. Contact me anyone is interested and I'll pass it along to him.



Dickson, I'm very interested if he still has it around. I tried to PM you but your box is full.
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#16 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 23 October 2005 - 11:40 PM

Buying a tank of a camera probably wouldn't suit your needs. If you want to do something serious, just rent something really nice, and cheap. Or a few hundred bucks will get you a portable friendly Beaulieu, Bolex, or Scoopic for some nice pictures.

Edited by Skratch, 23 October 2005 - 11:41 PM.

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#17 andrewbuchanan

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 08:51 AM

I would search the archive of this forum. Look for the following cameras... K3, Bolex, Arri S, Arri BL, ACL, NPR, and CP 16 and CP16R and Kinor. These are the entry level cameras that have accessories and options enough to used in a professional capacity. There are some others like the Scoopic, R16, etc. but these are pretty limited in their use... but they might be enough.

Each camera is very different and has its own advantages and disadvantages, so I would try to evaluate what you need, and make a decision based on those needs. In my opinion, the Eclair cameras offer the best price to performance ratio (especially the NPR). They can also be upgraded at a decent price.
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#18 Robert Glenn

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 09:53 PM

Alright, after much researching, I've decided once and for all on the CP-16R with a 15-150mm Angenieux. I have the oppritunity to buy this camera in Super 16 or normal. Price isn't an issue, but I am a beginner. What would you guys go with?

Not to discourage your decision, but my classmate in college shot his project on a cp16, and he had 2 problems. 1 - the belt for the mag squeaked, so he was constantly putting KY jelly on it. 2 - he had frame stutter. The 2 problems were probably interrelated and due to non-servicing, but it really turned me off to the camera.
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#19 Tim Myers

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Posted 27 October 2005 - 03:12 AM

Alright, after much researching, I've decided once and for all on the CP-16R with a 15-150mm Angenieux. I have the oppritunity to buy this camera in Super 16 or normal. Price isn't an issue, but I am a beginner. What would you guys go with?
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#20 Will Montgomery

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Posted 27 October 2005 - 12:06 PM

Alright, after much researching, I've decided once and for all on the CP-16R with a 15-150mm Angenieux. I have the oppritunity to buy this camera in Super 16 or normal. Price isn't an issue, but I am a beginner. What would you guys go with?


If you expect to go to HD eventually with the footage, its nice to have the extra width of S16. Also optically blowing up to 35mm would be better with S16. The camera can still function fine in regular 16mm, you just won't transfer the extended frame. If you're ok with the money difference, might as well have S16 just in case its helpful down the road.

You may want to check if the viewfinder has been modified to match the S16 frame as well.

Today's film is amazing, especially when transfered well. You'll be happy either way.
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