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#1 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:49 PM

Hey guys I have a important question. If I am shooting on Kodak vision 2 500T and I properlly expose the film but then I ask the lab to push it a stop what will it look like.
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#2 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:59 PM

basically, when you push one stop :

- you double the sensitivity (here you go up to 1000 ISO), then things will look lighter one stop
- you get a more grainy image
- you get a less contrast image


The blacks get greyer and the highlights - if ever - more saturated.

Usually one does that if image is underexposed one stop. As you exposed properly, you'd get a one stop overexposed image, more grainy, less contrast. But you can under print afterwards as well... You'll get back to the good density, but still be a bit more grainy and a bit less contrast, anyway.
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#3 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 02:10 PM

basically, when you push one stop :

- you double the sensitivity (here you go up to 1000 ISO), then things will look lighter one stop
- you get a more grainy image
- you get a less contrast image


The blacks get greyer and the highlights - if ever - more saturated.

Usually one does that if image is underexposed one stop. As you exposed properly, you'd get a one stop overexposed image, more grainy, less contrast. But you can under print afterwards as well... You'll get back to the good density, but still be a bit more grainy and a bit less contrast, anyway.


Technically, "pushing" a color negative film by one stop doesn't actually increase the speed by a full stop. It does increase the D-min and contrast such that film that was underexposed by one stop will now print/transfer at printer/telecine settings that are near "normal". But the actual increase in true photographic speed is less than a stop, so you can expect to see some loss of shadow detail. As noted, contrast and graininess normally increase with push processing.

If you had a normally exposed negative and accidently push-1 processed it, expect to see higher contrast and a denser negative. Printer lights will need to be about 7 lights higher, or the telecine colorist will need to grade the image back to normal.
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#4 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 02:20 PM

So what do you think if I under expose the film 1 stop and then push a stop in the lab? One of the scenes that I am shooting, the director wants it to be very dark and almost barely visible. So what I was going to do was shoot a 1200 HMI through a silk coming in from the window. Then I was going to set a china ball on a dimmer and use for just enough ambient fill in the room. The lenses on the SR2 can go up to T1.3, with that in mind I was going to expose for a a warm T1.3 and then push it a stop in post. What do you think that will look like visually.
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#5 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 02:45 PM

So what do you think if I under expose the film 1 stop and then push a stop in the lab? One of the scenes that I am shooting, the director wants it to be very dark and almost barely visible. So what I was going to do was shoot a 1200 HMI through a silk coming in from the window. Then I was going to set a china ball on a dimmer and use for just enough ambient fill in the room. The lenses on the SR2 can go up to T1.3, with that in mind I was going to expose for a a warm T1.3 and then push it a stop in post. What do you think that will look like visually.


Compared to a color negative that was exposed and processed normally (at the rated Exposure Index), a negative that is underexposed by one stop and push-1 processed will print/transfer like the normal negative. But the images will have a bit less shadow detail, somewhat higher midtone contrast, and slightly more graininess. If you want "very dark and almost barely visible", I'd underexpose by a stop, process normally, and print/transfer so the images are fairly dark to obscure your shadow detail and hold richer blacks.
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#6 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 03:04 PM

Thanks very much guys
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#7 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 04:57 PM

I second John.

Usually, you see, we push process when we know that we - unfortunatly - underexposed. When we have no choice, because of a low light setting, for instance. The only way to then have something usuable is to push process.

Unless one want the special looks it gives, pushing the process doesn't give the best quality results that one is looking for, because the stock is not designed to give the best result when pushed, but when normally processed.

If you have the possibilty of exposing normally, process normally will give you the best results.

If you want deep black, details etc... the best would be even to slightly overexpose (1/3 of a stop for instance), process normally and find the best result at the timing.

And if you want a dark image, just underexpose and process normally.

Though it's not the same, if you have a video camera you can imagine that pushing process gives you a result that one can compare to what you get when you use electronic gain...

If you expose normally and push process, it's a bit like adding gain without closing the iris... (just an image I'm giving, though)
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#8 Joseph White

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 05:59 PM

i've had a lot of luck with pushing actually - i shoot mostly music videos and find that i'm rarely rating anything normally these days. pushing one stop, especially on finer grained faster stocks like 5218 or Eterna or medium speed stocks like 5217 or 5274 can allow you to rate at either 800 asa or 1000 asa depending on your personal preference (whether or not you want to overexpose slightly and crush your blacks in telecine or just essentially rate normally).

i've also found that pushing increases contrast as opposed to reducing it, and that pulling can reduce granularity slightly and soften contrast and saturation. as i don't typically mind grain (unless its inapropriate for the piece) this approach allows me to light with smaller units (usually faster) and, in my opinion, more naturalistically. especilly with the trend in new emulsions having more and more latitude, i think pushing is a great option for people looking for a slightly more contrasty look.
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#9 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 06:06 AM

Hey guys I have a important question. If I am shooting on Kodak vision 2 500T and I properlly expose the film but then I ask the lab to push it a stop what will it look like.
Thanks Mario C. Jackson

Are u going for telecine or projection?
For projection I would suggest to rate normaly, but expose for the key light or just a half stop over.(It's a night interior right?)Try not to have too much light comin in from the window.(in terms of f/stop)
Develop normaly and do some corrections in the final print.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#10 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 10:36 AM

Thanks guys I am going to take everything into consideration today while I am shooting. Ultimately I think I am going to underexpose a 1/3 of a stop and then do everything else in print.
Thanks Mario C. Jackson
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#11 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 11:04 AM

Thanks guys I am going to take everything into consideration today while I am shooting. Ultimately I think I am going to underexpose a 1/3 of a stop and then do everything else in print.
Thanks Mario C. Jackson


If you underexpose by 1/3 stop and print/transfer to a dark image, you may still see some detail in the darkest shadows. Keep light off the things you are trying to hide, or underexpose a bit more to "make it dark and barely visible".
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#12 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 21 October 2005 - 02:48 PM

Yep, a third of a stop is not that much if you want to underexpose.

Having a spotmeter could help you a lot as to determine how dark/light things will be... Do you have a spotmeter ?
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