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Breaking down 400' reel to 100's


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#1 Jeremy Novak

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 03:25 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen-

I've got few posts out here, I'm new to filming so I'm going to be asking a lot of questions.

Anyhow, I have some 400' foot reels of 16mm stock and was wondering what the best way to break it down into smaller reels is. I don't have any special equipment just a couple of 100' daylight reels and a boat-load of determination.

Thanks!

-JN
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#2 Robert Glenn

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 06:51 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen-

I've got few posts out here, I'm new to filming so I'm going to be asking a lot of questions.

Anyhow, I have some 400' foot reels of 16mm stock and was wondering what the best way to break it down into smaller reels is. I don't have any special equipment just a couple of 100' daylight reels and a boat-load of determination.

Thanks!

-JN

What i've read is to rig 2 film winders in changing tent and just figure out how many revs would be 100 feet, then cut and store
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#3 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 10:31 AM

What i've read is to rig 2 film winders in changing tent and just figure out how many revs would be 100 feet, then cut and store



Get a set of Rewinds, a 600/800ft 16mm split reel,some 100ft daylight camera spools, couple of pair of white cotten editing gloves the lintless kind and a pair of blunt end scissors.. Find a dark room which has little or no dust or a large tent Changing bag. Put your 400 load into the Split reel. Mount on the rewinds. Spool from the large roll onto the daylight spools. When the film is about a 1/8 of an inch from the edge of the daylight spool, stop and cut the film. Remove the split reel , replace it with a empty 100ft spool wind the film back onto the second spool. Repeat process.

You can actually get a stick which will measure the size of a roll of film at Filmtools at a riddiculous price. Something you can make your self if yu have a digital footage counter on your camera , just use a fogged roll and take measurments with the mag door open as the film counts on the footage counter.

A positive pressure room is helpful as is a humidified room. A dry hot room will leave static markes (sparks=light)on you film
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#4 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 01:32 PM

I think what you need to do is wind from one core to another, then back wind onto 100ft spools... otherwise the perfs may be on the wrong side. anyway, thats how I do it and it works.
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#5 Clive Tobin

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 01:35 PM

. Spool from the large roll onto the daylight spools.


I would add two remarks to this:

1. You need to rewind the film once, before spooling it down. With single perf film, this will get the holes back on the correct edge to fit the camera. With double perf film, this will get the edge numbers back on the correct edge so they will count properly (forward) and be on the correct edge to show up in the work print or be read in the KeyKode device.

2. Don't imagine you can get four full 100' loads from the 400' core load. A 100' camera spool actually has about 109 feet on it for integral leader and trailer for subdued-light loading. The 400' core load actually has 400 or maybe 401 feet. You can however get 11 109' spools out of a 1200' core length.
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#6 Marc Montreal

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:02 PM

Jeremy,

You can also ask the lab where you're going to process it.
It may cost a bit but you'll be sure do have it done correctly.

Marc
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#7 Andy Sparaco SOC

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:52 PM

I think what you need to do is wind from one core to another, then back wind onto 100ft spools... otherwise the perfs may be on the wrong side. anyway, thats how I do it and it works.



Seems like this would be easier But you will need Two Split reels instead of one unless you have a "tight wind" on one of your rewinds.

You could skip the split reel and just use core adapters but that can be a disaster in the making. especially when you are spooling down a lot of small 100 footers. . You will need a third hand. In regards to the perfs if you have film on a split reel on the left and it comes off the top to a spool on the right and both rewinds are moving clockwise and you spool off the top to from the right to the left counterclock wise to a spool or core. There is no change in perf position, The film takes a short trip to the right and then takes a short trip to the left nothing changes except the length.

I like to spool film all the way to the edge -about 125 to 130 ft. Allows a solid 10 feet of head and tail leader.

The whole spooling routine is a pain in the arse but necessary with the Vision 2 stocks which are not so common in 100 ft loads.
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#8 Will Montgomery

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 12:54 AM

You can also ask the lab where you're going to process it.


Marc's nailed it. Find a lab in your area and offer the techs some beer to do it for you.
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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:28 PM

1
1. You need to rewind the film once, before spooling it down. With single perf film, this will get the holes back on the correct edge to fit the camera.
2. Don't imagine you can get four full 100' loads from the 400' core load. A 100' camera spool actually has about 109 feet on it for integral leader and trailer for subdued-light loading.


Just some notes, I have just finished doing this for the first time. (I have repacked 35mm film for the still camera for years but I just got some ends to try in the filmo, so respooling party on!)

1) I used a split reel and a 400 foot Spool (like the TV news folks used to use in their CP-16 cameras) for the first pass, I put a 5 foot lenth of leader on the spool, and used tape to attche the lead end of the "bulk" roll. That way I avoided tring to find the slot in the 400 Ft spool in the dark. I figured using the spool as insurance, as once the film is on that, It can't get fogged even if there is some light. I did the whole thing in the dark and I don't think I had any probelm that way, I will see when I get a chance to try the film out. (no matter what, - a valid learning experience)

2) after I had the film on the spool, I switched positions and put the 400 ft spool on the feed rewind, (I actually was using the reel arm of a projector as one of my "rewinds" with a hand rewind for the destination, just saves some space in my darkroom/work area.

3) it is hard to judge a full spool. I wound three what I thought were full spools from my 400 ft roll, and said I just have to wind the rest on the last spool. I had way too much, and had to set asside about 20-30 feet on another spool at the end. I am going to have to listen very carelully to find out the end of those rolls. I am calling them 90 foot loads!

4) next step will be to find a place to try one of my rolls and "see what develops" :P
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#10 Boris Belay

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 10:10 AM

My tip, if in a pinch, away from a spacious, equipped work area : I did the whole process inside a (Bolex) 400ft mag, winding by hand, in a closed-off hotel bathroom (with Do Not Disturb sign on !) and inside my usual changing bag. I did the two wind method (for lack of a better one) : from 400ft reel on core (no split reel, just the magazine's film guides) to 100ft daylight spool, and back-wound onto an extra spool). The film did not go out of the mag, but straight from feed axis to take-up axis (it's possible on the Bolex mag, but I'm not sure about other kinds -- obviously not on coaxial designs and independant feed/take-up chamber designs).
It takes a bit of 'space management' (storing the mag lid, the cores, daylight spools, cans, film bags and tape, etc.) but it turned out very well, and meant I didn't have to lug rewinds, split reels, and all the rest (plus camera gear and film) on a plane to Taiwan...
The main thing, whichever the technique, is to figure it all out ahead of time, rehearse, be very methodical and patient as you do it, and not to change method halfway through because it's becoming tedious (it is, no matter what).
I feel the film as it fills up, judge what makes a 'full' 100ft spool, and put whatever is left on the 4th one, which is generally shorter, in my case.
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