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Which stock to use ?


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#1 Dominik Muench

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:38 AM

Hi,


im shooting a lingerie commercial in 3 weeks, the locations are all outside and shooting time will be early morning or afternoon. im looking for a stock that gives me good natural skintones. however i would like the water and greenery (we are shooting at a beach) be very vibrant as well.
since we are shooting on 16mm and the commercial is getting a 35mm blowup for cinema screenings, i would likeas little grain as possible in the 16mm stock.
any recommendations ? so far im thinking of using the Fuji 125t wiht filter, or 250d.
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#2 Joseph White

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 03:23 AM

if you want really vibrant colors and fine grain, i'd say shoot 7245 while you still can (exr 50D). its slow, but if you are on faster primes you'll be good. truly one of the last actually saturated and contrasty stocks out there with terrific fine grain. the 7201 (Vision2 50D) is making the rounds as well, but its definitely less saturated as its designed to intercut with the Vision2 family of films.

in general, stay on the slower side of the stocks - 250D in 16mm will probably give you more grain than you'd like. also check out the fuji 64D - less saturated than the 7245 but still has nice skin tones and is very fine grained.

hope this helps - happy shooting!
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#3 Dominik Muench

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 04:59 AM

oh exr50D, interesting, i never thought of that, i have a set of primes which go down to F1.3 so that shouldnt be a problem, especially with all the sun here in australia. i surely will consider that option thank you.
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#4 Dimitrios Koukas

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 06:06 AM

oh exr50D, interesting, i never thought of that, i have a set of primes which go down to F1.3 so that shouldnt be a problem, especially with all the sun here in australia. i surely will consider that option thank you.


Is it for TV or projection?
U can get very nice greens with fuji stocks, so I would suggest the 250 ASA Daylight (I don't remember the type number sry).
This can get you out almost thru the day, and in magic hour.
(If you like to keep your f/stops high, where the lens gives it's best).Also maybe you will need a polarizer filter, that will work ok with the 250.
In a bright sunlight situation, even 50 ASA needs some ND, so u can use some more for the 250.
Dimitrios Koukas
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#5 Dominik Muench

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 06:25 AM

hi Dimitrios,

thanks for the advice, yes it is for project in cinemas.
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#6 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 10:12 AM

For lowest grain in a Super-16 blow-up, definitely consider 7245, 7201, or 7212. 7205 is the finest grain film in a higher speed range. 7201 has amazingly low graininess.

Any of the VISION2 films can give "vibrant" colors, and can be enhanced further in telecine or scanning (DI). A bit of overexposure will help increase saturation and reduce graininess even more.

http://www.kodak.com...0.1.4.4.4&lc=en
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#7 Fran Kuhn

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:31 PM

The new 7201 50D Vision 2 daylight stock may be a little kinder to the skin tones that EXR 50D. I just saw it projected at Kodak in Hollywood and there was a noticeable improvement (not as ruddy or red/yellow toned) though it is also slightly lower in contrast. I was a little worried when this new film was announced because it probably means the end of EXR50D, my all-time favorite daylight-balanced film, but after looking at the comparison, I have to say that I think the new stock will be a very worthy replacement for the venerable EXR stock.
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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 02:47 PM

also check out the fuji 64D - less saturated than the 7245 but still has nice skin tones and is very fine grained.


Hi,

I've used a lot of Fuji F64D, its cheeper too!

Stephen
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#9 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 04:05 PM

Hi,

I've used a lot of Fuji F64D, its cheeper too!

Stephen


7201 or 7245 have much lower graininess.
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#10 Dominik Muench

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 05:34 PM

Johns is always on the ball wiht Kodak :)

thanks for the recommendation, sooo many choices, i wish we had the budget so i could shoot some tests on all those stocks the 50D made me curious.
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#11 Mario C. Jackson

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 04:46 PM

John
How can overexposing increase saturation? I thought that the more you over expose the less saturation you will have.
Thanks
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#12 Dominik Muench

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 12:08 AM

he probably ment overexposing and then pulling the stock in development :)
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#13 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 02:55 AM

Overexposing negative a little (no more than one stop) and PRINTING down will give you richer blacks in the print, which in turn give the feeling of better contrast and saturation. If you are just shooting for telecine transfer only, a little overexposure helps but black level and saturation are really controlled by the color-correction tools to the level you want.

Gross overexposure places too much highlight information on the flatter shoulder portion of the characteristic curve and saturation starts to wash out.

Now in terms of shooting under saturated, gelled lamps, you want to underexpose in order to retain more color; this is not really underexposing in the sense of getting a thin negative that needs to be printed "up" but exposing the color correctly to retain its intensity, because if you have a strong blue light and expose it so that it is at "key" brightness like you might with a white light, then the colored light would actually be overexposed & washed out compared to the way your eye sees it. In other words, the underexposed colored light is actually the correct exposure to read the color accurately like your eye sees it.

Overexposing and pull-processing actually renders colors more pastel and lowers contrast.
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#14 Dominik Muench

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:03 AM

i really have to get my head around all those technical terms, i always mix push n pull up :/
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#15 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:10 PM

With modern color negative films, as you increase exposure and put the scene information further up the curve, you also tend to get more "interimage" effects from the DIR couplers, which increases color saturation somewhat.
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#16 Will Montgomery

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 12:30 AM

With modern color negative films, as you increase exposure and put the scene information further up the curve, you also tend to get more "interimage" effects from the DIR couplers, which increases color saturation somewhat.


Sure... you just made that up... :D

Just recieved my first Vision2 50D, can't wait to test it. I've been so impressed with EXR 50D that I find it hard to imagine a better looking image... but I'll give it shot.
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#17 Stephen Williams

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 04:45 AM

7201 or 7245 have much lower graininess.



John,

Unfortunately I've never been able to get '45 from Kodak Switzerland, its always special order 2 weeks notice required! Hopefully '01 will be stocked and I can leave F64D behind!

Stephen
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#18 Dominik Muench

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 04:50 AM

Stephen:

why is that ? you are not happy with the 64D quality ?
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#19 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:03 AM

Stephen:

why is that ? you are not happy with the 64D quality ?


7245 and 7201 are noticeably lower in graininess.

(Whether a film is stocked locally depends on the anticipated demand. If there is consistent use, they usually stock it. If it will sit on the shelf for months, they will ship it in, which takes a week or two.)
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#20 Dominik Muench

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 01:25 AM

ordered 5 rolls of EXR 50D today, i hope it was a good decision :)

john: how much exposure latitude does that stock have ? i still have troubles deciphering the curve, i figured 10 but that might be a bit too high ?
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