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Cross-Processing the new 64T


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#1 Joseph White

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 10:18 PM

So I'm shooting a short next week and we're shooting the main bit of the film on Super 16mm (on 7217) and the director wants some other shots to intercut with a really colorful, bold, contrasty look. He suggested shooting these on super 8mm (this is a finish to video project so I don't have to worry about blowups/printing ever). We had talked about some of the more recent Tony Scott stuff (Man on Fire, Domino) and we both really love their use of cross-processing. I've shot a bunch of 5285 cross-processed, but there's no budget to even do this on s16mm with 7285, so we're thinking we'll cross-process the only color reversal film made for s8mm - the new Ektachrome 64t.

It's such a new stock that nobody at Kodak, Pro8MM, or really anywhere has any idea what it'll look like - which I kinda find exciting - but I'm worried slightly about rating it. I usually rate 5285 at 200asa when cross-processing it, so logically I'm thinking about rating this stock at 125asa - the real question is I have no access to an 85 filter for the s8mm camera I own, nor does the director have one for the one he owns - so essentially I'm cross-processing un-corrected-for-daylight reversal film since we're shooting everythign in the desert. Yikes! Let alone how we're shooting 2.35:1 in super 16mm (with a taped ground glass as nobody on earth has a 2.35:1 GG for an arri sr-II, sadly) and i'll just have to estimate with the s8mm camera.

So beyond just stating what I'm doing, I'm really interested in any feedback any of you might have in terms of ways of approaching this ("proper" rating, contrast, tips, etc). 5285 is the only stock I've ever cross-processed so anyone out there with tons of cross-processing experience - come to my aid please!
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 11:02 PM

Your Super-8 camera has no switch-in internal 85A filter? If not, you can't get an 85B filter for the camera? It can't be THAT hard to get one.... You could probably order one online and have it shipped quickly to you.

I personally haven't found it necessary to rate a cross-processed reversal stock differently. I've rated 5285 at 100 ASA as recommended, cross-processed it, and gotten normal exposures, maybe slightly bright like by 1/3 of a stop but that's it.
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#3 santo

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 03:44 PM

I'm surprised like David that you don't have a built-in 85 filter. Every super 8 camera has one, except if you're using a Beaulieu that had its filter removed because it turned to junk (common problem) and didn't have it replaced with a new one.

Of course, the 64t requires an 85b for exact filtration. Recent examples on the net show how drastic the difference is between an 85 (camera's built in filter) and an external 85b! However, as you're finishing on video and going through the unique cross-processing thing -- man, this is a hell of a cool idea I'd like to try for a super unique look -- then you can easily use an 85 and tweek it to make it right in post and must have the resources to do so.

Wow, please post some stills of this to show us how it turned out. Again, very cool idea.
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#4 sparky

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:00 PM

When you talk about cross processing, does that mean that you are processing for neg rather than pos? Is that possible? I just replaced the filter in my user Leicina for some 85B wratten- there was a significant difference in the colour to my eye, but the 85 might have been faded (30 yrs old)- there was a difference in thickness also which might be worrying for wideangle/high depth of field shots.

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#5 santo

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:04 PM

When you talk about cross processing, does that mean that you are processing for neg rather than pos? Is that possible?



Yes. Makes for some cool black and white when you see them cross-processed. Tends to get grainy, though. But in a good way if that's what you're after. Probably because 64 was designed as a professional film, the results should be very cool.

Is John the really nice Kodak rep reading this still? He might have some input here!
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#6 santo

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 04:42 PM

Here's a nice page on it with lots of examples and info including 64t:

http://webmonkey.wir....html?tw=design
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#7 Joseph White

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 05:15 PM

there's a switch on the handle of my canon s8mm camera that goes between a sun and a lightbulb - sadly its really goddamn lodged in the lightbulb hence my desire to grab a filter instead of breaking the camera. we're renting from Hollywood Camera and they're trying to get me an 85A and 85B filter for my canon though, so we'll see. thanks for your insights, though, i'll probably end up rating it at 100asa without the filter and 64asa with just to be safe. and considering how we're finishing to tape, i'll hopefully have some wiggle room in post
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#8 Chris Burke

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 05:29 PM

there's a switch on the handle of my canon s8mm camera that goes between a sun and a lightbulb - sadly its really goddamn lodged in the lightbulb hence my desire to grab a filter instead of breaking the camera. we're renting from Hollywood Camera and they're trying to get me an 85A and 85B filter for my canon though, so we'll see. thanks for your insights, though, i'll probably end up rating it at 100asa without the filter and 64asa with just to be safe. and considering how we're finishing to tape, i'll hopefully have some wiggle room in post




Does your budget allow for a camera rental? If so, try renting a 4008 from Pro8mm. That camera has an enlarged gate and 16:9 ground glass. So framing for 2.35 shouldn't be that hard with those guides. Plus with the extra image area via the enlarged gate, your image will be a bit sharper. You can also find some 7240 out there in super 8, I know it was discontinued, but there is still a good deal out there, you just have to look. If this is a video finish, your telecine session can give you any look you want. In any case, please post some stills from and test and or final shots, it sounds really cool.


chris
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#9 uoliwils

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 05:19 PM

I was thinking about this some weeks ago so I tried one 64t roll with a still camera. Didn't have any 85 so I used an Ilford gelatin filter instead (for b&w multigrade paper... :rolleyes: ). The results were impressive, I wonder how it would be with the correct filter. David
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#10 John Hyde

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 08:48 PM

Cross processing of 64T should be quite interesting. Hope you will post some shots.

I would avoid Pro8mm for both processing and rentals. I know of others, including myself that have had some bad experiences there. There are other places that can handle your needs with more professional attitude/customer service and better prices.

Try Yale Labs or Spectra Film for your cross processing, telecine and camera. They should be cheaper and/or do a better job.

Good Luck
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#11 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 12:28 PM

I got to see a tiny bit of some cross processed 64T, it looked cool but heard it was really hard to transfer.
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